The Indian Air Force Claims A MiG-21 Bison Managed To Shoot Down A Pakistan Air
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I didn't realize mig 21's were in service with anyone.
Lots of them were built. About 10,000. Easy to maintain. Simple, reliable airplane.
Many of them are still in service.
Never heard them called a "Bison" before. Reckon that's a journalist mistake. The "-Bis" was a model upgrade during production. The "- Bis" was probably the model involved in this.
In NATO terminology, the "Bison" was the Myasishchev M-4.
Many of them are still in service.
Never heard them called a "Bison" before. Reckon that's a journalist mistake. The "-Bis" was a model upgrade during production. The "- Bis" was probably the model involved in this.
In NATO terminology, the "Bison" was the Myasishchev M-4.
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By the way, "No evidence to prove the claim that an F-16 was really shot down was presented."
So let's reserve judgement on whether to LOL...
So let's reserve judgement on whether to LOL...
I first saw that info on RT.com....they deliberately said (in their topic) that as a fact...
...but I didnt want to post RT page...since there is a lot of R bias there... So I searched for more neutral link...
...but I didnt want to post RT page...since there is a lot of R bias there... So I searched for more neutral link...
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Bison is the last upgrade towards or to 4th generation aircrafts...
https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-differences-between-the-MiG-21-Fishbed-the-MiG-21-Bison
https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-differences-between-the-MiG-21-Fishbed-the-MiG-21-Bison
Originally Posted by spasm3
I didn't realize mig 21's were in service with anyone.
What Astro said, a few are even is service with NATO countries like Croatia, or were until recently. An Israeli firm offers significant avionics upgrades to allow them to be compatible...
I didn't realize mig 21's were in service with anyone.
What Astro said, a few are even is service with NATO countries like Croatia, or were until recently. An Israeli firm offers significant avionics upgrades to allow them to be compatible...
Originally Posted by PimTac
One cannot trust any of the news coming out of that region. Besides, this happened days ago and supposedly all is good now. These temper tantrums erupt every so often between India and Pakistan.
Wow, what a confirmatory statement, as if we can trust what comes out of our media's mouth.
And if you don't know the history, better to say nothing.
One cannot trust any of the news coming out of that region. Besides, this happened days ago and supposedly all is good now. These temper tantrums erupt every so often between India and Pakistan.
Wow, what a confirmatory statement, as if we can trust what comes out of our media's mouth.
And if you don't know the history, better to say nothing.
Originally Posted by Kamele0N
Bison is the last upgrade towards or to 4th generation aircrafts...
https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-differences-between-the-MiG-21-Fishbed-the-MiG-21-Bison
Well, MiG originally abbreviated the upgrade to "Bis". If they're now using the full name Bison, or if NATO shortened it to "Bis" to avoid confusion with the M-4 Bomber, I don't know.
I know what the "Bis" upgrade entails. I mentioned that in an earlier post. I've studied the performance and capabilities of every fighter ever built, particularly the MiG and Sukhoi aircraft.
It's just that the terminology of "Bison" is new to me.
Bison is the last upgrade towards or to 4th generation aircrafts...
https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-differences-between-the-MiG-21-Fishbed-the-MiG-21-Bison
Well, MiG originally abbreviated the upgrade to "Bis". If they're now using the full name Bison, or if NATO shortened it to "Bis" to avoid confusion with the M-4 Bomber, I don't know.
I know what the "Bis" upgrade entails. I mentioned that in an earlier post. I've studied the performance and capabilities of every fighter ever built, particularly the MiG and Sukhoi aircraft.
It's just that the terminology of "Bison" is new to me.
It seems the Bison is a separate upgrade export version of the Mig-21 used by only India so far...
Originally Posted by Nickdfresh
It seems the Bison is a separate upgrade export version of the Mig-21 used by only India so far...
So it appears. Not the 'Bis" upgrade but a follow-on to that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mikoyan-Gurevich_MiG-21_variants
When you build 10,000 jets, and a few are built under export license, there are going to be a lot of variants...
IF you can trust Wiki on this, the Bison upgrade/export for India includes a radar capable of multi-target track and the AA-10 (Vympel R-27) Alamo missile, this is a formidable threat. The AA-10 Alamo is a very capable missile, available in several variants, including semi-active, active and a homing model.
While the MiG-21 airframe can't match the turn performance of a 4th gen fighter, it has good speed, good climb, one great turn in a fight and it is small and hard to see. Add a credible radar and late generation, long range missiles to that, and you've got a near peer to the F-16.
Hardly a laughing matter...
It seems the Bison is a separate upgrade export version of the Mig-21 used by only India so far...
So it appears. Not the 'Bis" upgrade but a follow-on to that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mikoyan-Gurevich_MiG-21_variants
When you build 10,000 jets, and a few are built under export license, there are going to be a lot of variants...
IF you can trust Wiki on this, the Bison upgrade/export for India includes a radar capable of multi-target track and the AA-10 (Vympel R-27) Alamo missile, this is a formidable threat. The AA-10 Alamo is a very capable missile, available in several variants, including semi-active, active and a homing model.
While the MiG-21 airframe can't match the turn performance of a 4th gen fighter, it has good speed, good climb, one great turn in a fight and it is small and hard to see. Add a credible radar and late generation, long range missiles to that, and you've got a near peer to the F-16.
Hardly a laughing matter...
Originally Posted by Astro14
Originally Posted by Kamele0N
Bison is the last upgrade towards or to 4th generation aircrafts...
https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-differences-between-the-MiG-21-Fishbed-the-MiG-21-Bison
Well, MiG originally abbreviated the upgrade to "Bis". If they're now using the full name Bison, or if NATO shortened it to "Bis" to avoid confusion with the M-4 Bomber, I don't know.
I know what the "Bis" upgrade entails. I mentioned that in an earlier post. I've studied the performance and capabilities of every fighter ever built, particularly the MiG and Sukhoi aircraft.
It's just that the terminology of "Bison" is new to me.
BIS in Europe is used as "Encore" or a copy of the original sometimes with changes. Perhaps this is why the have named it BIS, it may be an updated version of the original.
Originally Posted by Kamele0N
Bison is the last upgrade towards or to 4th generation aircrafts...
https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-differences-between-the-MiG-21-Fishbed-the-MiG-21-Bison
Well, MiG originally abbreviated the upgrade to "Bis". If they're now using the full name Bison, or if NATO shortened it to "Bis" to avoid confusion with the M-4 Bomber, I don't know.
I know what the "Bis" upgrade entails. I mentioned that in an earlier post. I've studied the performance and capabilities of every fighter ever built, particularly the MiG and Sukhoi aircraft.
It's just that the terminology of "Bison" is new to me.
BIS in Europe is used as "Encore" or a copy of the original sometimes with changes. Perhaps this is why the have named it BIS, it may be an updated version of the original.
Originally Posted by Astro14
Originally Posted by Nickdfresh
It seems the Bison is a separate upgrade export version of the Mig-21 used by only India so far...
So it appears. Not the 'Bis" upgrade but a follow-on to that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mikoyan-Gurevich_MiG-21_variants
When you build 10,000 jets, and a few are built under export license, there are going to be a lot of variants...
IF you can trust Wiki on this, the Bison upgrade/export for India includes a radar capable of multi-target track and the AA-10 (Vympel R-27) Alamo missile, this is a formidable threat. The AA-10 Alamo is a very capable missile, available in several variants, including semi-active, active and a homing model.
While the MiG-21 airframe can't match the turn performance of a 4th gen fighter, it has good speed, good climb, one great turn in a fight and it is small and hard to see. Add a credible radar and late generation, long range missiles to that, and you've got a near peer to the F-16.
Hardly a laughing matter...
To echo on Astro's sentiments. The Mig-21 isn't a world beater but it's still a very capable aircraft especially when paired with an AA-10. I've seen more AA-10s during a "friendly" wing flash than I'd care to admit. Granted Astro's perspective is a bit different than mine given our differing backgrounds, to my platform just about any fighter with a gun or guided missile is a threat. We look to our fast movers to provide HVAA-P for us when things turn sideways.
Originally Posted by Nickdfresh
It seems the Bison is a separate upgrade export version of the Mig-21 used by only India so far...
So it appears. Not the 'Bis" upgrade but a follow-on to that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mikoyan-Gurevich_MiG-21_variants
When you build 10,000 jets, and a few are built under export license, there are going to be a lot of variants...
IF you can trust Wiki on this, the Bison upgrade/export for India includes a radar capable of multi-target track and the AA-10 (Vympel R-27) Alamo missile, this is a formidable threat. The AA-10 Alamo is a very capable missile, available in several variants, including semi-active, active and a homing model.
While the MiG-21 airframe can't match the turn performance of a 4th gen fighter, it has good speed, good climb, one great turn in a fight and it is small and hard to see. Add a credible radar and late generation, long range missiles to that, and you've got a near peer to the F-16.
Hardly a laughing matter...
To echo on Astro's sentiments. The Mig-21 isn't a world beater but it's still a very capable aircraft especially when paired with an AA-10. I've seen more AA-10s during a "friendly" wing flash than I'd care to admit. Granted Astro's perspective is a bit different than mine given our differing backgrounds, to my platform just about any fighter with a gun or guided missile is a threat. We look to our fast movers to provide HVAA-P for us when things turn sideways.
An article appeared a few days ago in Asia Times regarding this topic, primarily from the Indian perspective. Author notes early on in the piece that Pakistan does not admit to losing an F-16. Linked video in the article is for a lengthy discussion by a panel of Indian Security/Defense experts on the capabilities of the MiG-21 Bison and the R-73 Vympel reportedly used to "down" the PK F-16.
https://www.asiatimes.com/2019/03/article/its-mig-21-versus-the-f-16-over-kashmir/
https://www.asiatimes.com/2019/03/article/its-mig-21-versus-the-f-16-over-kashmir/
Okay, last one on this topic from me. Putting up a direct link here for this article may run afoul of the mods, so I will merely point readers that way. Aviation writer Tyler Rogoway at The War Zone has a detailed article today (3-11-19) that quite pointedly calls out the talk about an IAF Mig-21 downing a PAF F-16 as bs. He does an excellent job describing the upgrades on the Bison, and tactics that may have been used. And gets to the heart of the issue: not impossible, but no evidence for a downed F-16.
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone
There has been speculation, too, that Pakistan isn't wanting to run afoul of U.S. end use agreements on the F-16, so they won't admit it no matter what.
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