The First EV Price War

[Torrid]

of course, the countries largest American car company poses a threat to the EV marketplace.
Calling a failure is ridiculous. It took Tesla 10 years to get up and running actually more than that.
Yet GM is a threat and they only started a year or two ago just wait until 2025
What do you think is going to happen when every GM car dealership has electric vehicles on their lots on every corner in America. to ignore that possibility would be hiding in the sand
By the way, I’m not debating you I agree agree with a lot of what you said.

I am in no way disparaging anybody who likes Teslas but every time I look at my neighbors Tesla I think personally it’s to me, a generic looking economy car, and there is nothing wrong with that but I do think they’re gonna get buried in the coming years.
I mean just look at an EV6 it’s an absolutely gorgeous car and it’s like Kia got it to market almost overnight. Well, GM and the others will have much of the same hitting the market over the next few years.

I personally think the markets gonna be saturated in the real profit margin is gonna come from ice vehicles

It’s a perception. Just like mine. I spent many years owning GMs and see them as a hodgepodge of plastic junk. Tesla has the ability to prove you right or wrong just as GM can prove me right or wrong. It’s all about what the market decides though. For now on EVs Tesla is taking everyone’s lunch money. Time will tell if that changes. Pricing is GM’s biggest problem at the moment when it comes to EVs and $80k EV trucks isn’t going to save any company.

I like KIA’s tenacity and if I wondered what an EV with a 2005 GM interior with some fancy screens looked like, I’d go with one of them.

 

[alarmguy]

It’s a perception. Just like mine. I spent many years owning GMs and see them as a hodgepodge of plastic junk. Tesla has the ability to prove you right or wrong just as GM can prove me right or wrong. It’s all about what the market decides though. For now on EVs Tesla is taking everyone’s lunch money. Time will tell if that changes. Pricing is GM’s biggest problem at the moment when it comes to EVs and $80k EV trucks isn’t going to save any company.

I like KIA’s tenacity and if I wondered what an EV with a 2005 GM interior with some fancy screens looked like, I’d go with one of them.

In order to compare a GM EV you have to sit and drive one in the same price class of the Tesla you are comparing it to.
Tesla is hardly in any position to take anyones lunch money. The industry is taking from Tesla around the world. Just check the quarterly results, they have big issues for a car company that only made significant money from operations the last two years of its 15 year history. BYD is cleaning Tesla's clock in China and now Chinese EVs are being built right here, orders being taken on Volvo's website.
Heck, the CEO in trying to pump up the stock price mentions the word AI and the stock takes off, then settles back down, so one week later Tesla demo's a robot that would be used in businesses. The media is less than impressed. I wonder what they will try next week as for a car company, not much coming out except for its typical delays getting anything done.

GM is blowing Tesla away in the financials and sales department. We will see if they end up stepping on their own feet which is what they do best. As far as how you see them as "plastic junk" is fine but America doest agree with you and why a 90 year track record of #1 in sales. Tesla offers nothing but one size fits all models to the public in a battery only version, its #1 standing in the EV world has seen declining market share for Weill over a year now. BTW- GM is going back to Europe in EV only mode. Lyric is being well receipted.

Fact is, lithium battery EVs are not going to replace gasoline for the majority during our lifetime, unless a better technology comes along.
The market is going to be awash in EVs though it seems GM did one thing smart and had time to shelve plans now that we know the public resistance to EVs better.

https://www.caranddriver.com/cadillac/lyriq

AS far as EV only companies, they are going to struggle here and Tesla also overseas. BYD is killing it overseas and we have our first Chinese EVs arriving at our shores.

https://www.fastcompany.com/91115932/evs-volvo-ex30-affordable-china-trade-war-geely

BTW - GM has invested and built new ICE production plant recently. I think just big V8s for trucks.

Interesting times but we need something better than lithium EVs in the USA. Postage stamp size countries are not the landmass of the USA and our very popular interstate system.

 

[ragtoplvr]

One manufacturer not mentioned is Stellantis. I don't know what they're doing. Since Dodge is marketed as an anti-establishment anti-progressive brand it seems they'd be perfect to shun EVs and produce larger vehicles with larger displacement engines. They'd get a lot of sales from the folks that shun EV, hybrids, and turbos. They seem lost.

Atari is a good example. The made the Amiga, ever heard of it? It was revolutionary. Way better than anything else. It failed. Marketing failure. Marketing Elon?

 

[Torrid]

In order to compare a GM EV you have to sit and drive one in the same price class of the Tesla you are comparing it to.
Tesla is hardly in any position to take anyones lunch money. The industry is taking from Tesla around the world. Just check the quarterly results, they have big issues for a car company that only made significant money from operations the last two years of its 15 year history. BYD is cleaning Tesla's clock in China and now Chinese EVs are being built right here, orders being taken on Volvo's website.
Heck, the CEO in trying to pump up the stock price mentions the word AI and the stock takes off, then settles back down, so one week later Tesla demo's a robot that would be used in businesses. The media is less than impressed. I wonder what they will try next week as for a car company, not much coming out except for its typical delays getting anything done.

GM is blowing Tesla away in the financials and sales department. We will see if they end up stepping on their own feet which is what they do best. As far as how you see them as "plastic junk" is fine but America doest agree with you and why a 90 year track record of #1 in sales. Tesla offers nothing but one size fits all models to the public in a battery only version, its #1 standing in the EV world has seen declining market share for Weill over a year now. BTW- GM is going back to Europe in EV only mode. Lyric is being well receipted.

Fact is, lithium battery EVs are not going to replace gasoline for the majority during our lifetime, unless a better technology comes along.
The market is going to be awash in EVs though it seems GM did one thing smart and had time to shelve plans now that we know the public resistance to EVs better.

https://www.caranddriver.com/cadillac/lyriq

AS far as EV only companies, they are going to struggle here and Tesla also overseas. BYD is killing it overseas and we have our first Chinese EVs arriving at our shores.

https://www.fastcompany.com/91115932/evs-volvo-ex30-affordable-china-trade-war-geely

BTW - GM has invested and built new ICE production plant recently. I think just big V8s for trucks.

Interesting times but we need something better than lithium EVs in the USA. Postage stamp size countries are not the landmass of the USA and our very popular interstate system.

Exactly and best selling doesn't mean the best product. GM isn't making EVs in Tesla's segments, aside from possibly the Blazer which I see my local dealer has two and I've never seen one on the road. Tesla actually makes cars which seems to be a foreign concept these days. I have seen one Silverado EV company vehicle, but I'm not convinced that isn't a test vehicle yet. GM has a lot of irons in the fire with nothing really coming to fruition just yet. I see very few GM EVs on the road. Ford EVs must be outselling GM EVs 10 to 1. I see the occasional Lightning, but Mach-Es seem to have caught on here with their current pricing.

I am discussing EVs vs EVs here. I don't care what the rest of GM is doing. They might as well be separate companies for all I care. GM makes some nice interiors once you start paying real money, which is what I meant by plastic. They aren't in a $25k Trax though.

 

[alarmguy]

Exactly and best selling doesn't mean the best product. GM isn't making EVs in Tesla's segments, aside from possibly the Blazer which I see my local dealer has two and I've never seen one on the road. Tesla actually makes cars which seems to be a foreign concept these days. I have seen one Silverado EV company vehicle, but I'm not convinced that isn't a test vehicle yet. GM has a lot of irons in the fire with nothing really coming to fruition just yet. I see very few GM EVs on the road. Ford EVs must be outselling GM EVs 10 to 1. I see the occasional Lightning, but Mach-Es seem to have caught on here with their current pricing.

I am discussing EVs vs EVs here. I don't care what the rest of GM is doing. They might as well be separate companies for all I care. GM makes some nice interiors once you start paying real money, which is what I meant by plastic. They aren't in a $25k Trax though.

You know I get this a lot in the EV forum but it works two ways. You say you dont care what GM is doing with ICE, along with another.
Yet you use their ICE products to knock GM. So if you want to stick to EVs dont bring their ICE products in with comments of "Cheap Plastic" on some product you owned years ago.

As far as EVs. Take a good hard look at the amount of market share Tesla is losing. GM is making EVs in Tesla's segment or should we say Tesla isnt making EVs in GMs segment. Bottom line is they are vehicle manufacturers, the legacies have something Tesla does not to insulate themselves from the uncertainty of the EV market and moving forward that is already becoming apparent. The Chinese are coming, the market is already showing signs of disinterest from Americans.

This is the best selling luxury compact EV in the USA and they only started making them. With the $7,500 it is a non brainer if it can be obtained.
https://www.motortrend.com/news/2024-cadillac-lyriq-production-improving-sales-discount/

 

[Torrid]

You know I get this a lot in the EV forum but it works two ways. You say you dont care what GM is doing with ICE, along with another.
Yet you use their ICE products to knock GM. So if you want to stick to EVs dont bring their ICE products in with comments of "Cheap Plastic" on some product you owned years ago.

As far as EVs. Take a good hard look at the amount of market share Tesla is losing. GM is making EVs in Tesla's segment or should we say Tesla isnt making EVs in GMs segment. Bottom line is they are vehicle manufacturers, the legacies have something Tesla does not to insulate themselves from the uncertainty of the EV market and moving forward that is already becoming apparent. The Chinese are coming, the market is already showing signs of disinterest from Americans.

This is the best selling luxury compact EV in the USA and they only started making them. With the $7,500 it is a non brainer if it can be obtained.
https://www.motortrend.com/news/2024-cadillac-lyriq-production-improving-sales-discount/

I'm just trying to compare apples to apples. I don't have too many EVs from GM to compare, just plans for the future. I can only judge them on what has already been made though. That's what I meant. I think GM's EVs look very promising aside from weirdly high pricing. I just need to start seeing them. They did great with the Bolt it seems, but that's not the direction they're headed. Going to be hard to see that Silverado EV much at $80k. Probably the same reason that I rarely see new Model S and Model X, but plenty of 3s and Ys. Initial cost of admission. I'll be a bit surprised if the Blazer EV doesn't do well. It's a somewhat high price on the size of vehicle it seem many want, so with some incentives they should get decent adoption.

 

[alarmguy]

@Torrid the price of all pick up trucks to me is insane, how it ever got to that point I have no clue but I guess it brings pleasure to those. I personally think they are barking up the wrong tree with EV pickups, it will be more specialized I suspect. Actually we know that, Ford just learned that lesson I think with inventory sitting on lots? I just dont see, the rough and tough crowd giving up their big V8s and diesels for a battery.

Time to get out of BITOG for today (maybe *LOL*)

 

[Torrid]

@Torrid the price of all pick up trucks to me is insane, how it ever got to that point I have no clue but I guess it brings pleasure to those. I personally think they are barking up the wrong tree with EV pickups, it will be more specialized I suspect. Actually we know that, Ford just learned that lesson I think with inventory sitting on lots? I just dont see, the rough and tough crowd giving up their big V8s and diesels for a battery.

Time to get out of BITOG for today (maybe *LOL*)

I just want to clarify the like is for what you said about trucks, not the get out part. lol