Tesla’s Full Self-Driving Tech Isn’t ‘Just Around The Corner’ And Now Owners Can Sue Over It

[97prizm]

Apparently Elons antics are starting to catch up. Meanwhile, the company faces federal probes into whether defects in its Autopilot driver-assistance feature have contributed to fatal crashes, as well as regulatory investigations and lawsuits over claims that it has over-hyped its progress. Last month, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration opened a probe into whether the EV maker’s recall of more than 2 million cars months earlier adequately addressed Autopilot safety risks.
Here’s a little more from Reuters on just what the lawsuit covers and who can be involved:

U.S. District Judge Rita Lin in Sazn Francisco said owners could pursue negligence and fraud-based claims, to the extent they relied on Tesla’s representations regarding vehicles’ hardware and ability to drive coast-to-coast across the U.S.
Without ruling on the merits, Lin said that “if Tesla meant to convey that its hardware was sufficient to reach high or full automation, the plainly alleges sufficient falsity.”

 

[tenderloin]

On Mothers Day.. our middle son drove 6 of us in his updated X from Sal Elijo Hills to Wilson Creek Winery in Temecula hands free including parking in a lined space. Smooth, changed lanes, speed control, distance and braking. Not across country but plenty of turns, different roads, signals, stop signs etc. Recall? lol A over the internet update..took hardly any time. I have no idea how this will end but my son and his better half drive thousands of miles a month. They used it before the update. Like it even more now. "Elon's antics"? Really?

 

[walterjay]

One of my neighbors was killed using autopilot in his Tesla. Came to a fork in the road and crashed.

 

[97prizm]

On Mothers Day.. our middle son drove 6 of us in his updated X from Sal Elijo Hills to Wilson Creek Winery in Temecula hands free including parking in a lined space. Smooth, changed lanes, speed control, distance and braking. Not across country but plenty of turns, different roads, signals, stop signs etc. Recall? lol A over the internet update..took hardly any time. I have no idea how this will end but my son and his better half drive thousands of miles a month. They used it before the update. Like it even more now. "Elon's antics"? Really?

I've been to wilson creek winery. My parents are members there, it's a nice place. Temecula doesn't get nearly the love that Napa gets.

 

[97prizm]

One of my neighbors was killed using autopilot in his Tesla. Came to a fork in the road and crashed.

This past week a model 3 went off the road down an embankment hitting a tree killing the driver using Autopilot. People don't learn.

 

[Rand]

autopilot in the air =/= "autopilot" on a car.

 

[97prizm]

On Mothers Day.. our middle son drove 6 of us in his updated X from Sal Elijo Hills to Wilson Creek Winery in Temecula hands free including parking in a lined space. Smooth, changed lanes, speed control, distance and braking. Not across country but plenty of turns, different roads, signals, stop signs etc. Recall? lol A over the internet update..took hardly any time. I have no idea how this will end but my son and his better half drive thousands of miles a month. They used it before the update. Like it even more now. "Elon's antics"? Really?

He fired the entire supercharging team after the head laid off 15% of her team. She told Elon they can't function with no staff so everyone got the axe. Now he realized that "oh wait I don't have anyone. " Elon is a petulant child, and is showing that he can't make sound decisions any longer. A charging start-up company in Georgia already has had 100 Tesla supercharger employees apply for a job with them. They seem to be focused on developing charging for apartments and condos. You may have used autopilot or fsd in your sons model x without issue but many people are finding out it has serious flaws, and isn't close to level 5. The issue is that Elon repeatedly said they were close. In 2019,20,21 Elon posted on Twitter that they'd have full autonomous driving capabilities by years end just a "few things to work out." People need to be held accountable.

 

[atikovi]

This past week a model 3 went off the road down an embankment hitting a tree killing the driver using Autopilot. People don't learn.

Without knowing the details, that doesn't mean anything. You're supposed to be able to take control at a moments notice should there be a problem. Maybe the driver was texting or sleeping.

 

[MrHorspwer]

On Mothers Day.. our middle son drove 6 of us in his updated X from Sal Elijo Hills to Wilson Creek Winery in Temecula hands free including parking in a lined space. Smooth, changed lanes, speed control, distance and braking. Not across country but plenty of turns, different roads, signals, stop signs etc. Recall? lol A over the internet update..took hardly any time. I have no idea how this will end but my son and his better half drive thousands of miles a month. They used it before the update. Like it even more now. "Elon's antics"? Really?

And?

Neat trip but it's not FSD (aka SAE J3016 Level 5) because FSD doesn't exist. That's the point of the lawsuit.

Tens of thousands of Tesla customers, going as far back as 2016, paid real money for FSD.

Here it is, 2024, and there's still no FSD for those customers that paid for it. Thing is, it's not even that. It's that those customers will likely never see FSD on their vehicles because of the hardware level. HW2 and HW2.5 are able to be retrofitted to HW3. Great, but HW3 still doesn't have FSD. Now, Tesla has moved on to HW4 and Elon himself has said there will be no hardware retrofits from HW3 to HW4.

So where does that leave all those customers who bought (and still don't have) FSD that are running HW3? They paid for FSD but don't have FSD. They got their hardware retrofits, still no FSD. Tesla has moved to a new hardware level that can't be retrofitted.

The lawsuit alleges that HW2 didn't have the capability for FSD. HW2.5 didn't either, nor did HW3. Tesla knew all this and still sold the option to customers. Now they're on HW4 which Tesla says totally has the power for FSD, trust us! If HW4 is the magic bullet for FSD but can't be retrofit to HW3 vehicles, how is everyone who paid for FSD and has HW3 going to get FSD?

They're not. That's why there's a lawsuit.

 

[97prizm]

And?

Neat trip but it's not FSD (aka SAE J3016 Level 5) because FSD doesn't exist. That's the point of the lawsuit.

Tens of thousands of Tesla customers, going as far back as 2016, paid real money for FSD.

Here it is, 2024, and there's still no FSD for those customers that paid for it. Thing is, it's not even that. It's that those customers will likely never see FSD on their vehicles because of the hardware level. HW2 and HW2.5 are able to be retrofitted to HW3. Great, but HW3 still doesn't have FSD. Now, Tesla has moved on to HW4 and Elon himself has said there will be no hardware retrofits from HW3 to HW4.

So where does that leave all those customers who bought (and still don't have) FSD that are running HW3? They paid for FSD but don't have FSD. They got their hardware retrofits, still no FSD. Tesla has moved to a new hardware level that can't be retrofitted.

The lawsuit alleges that HW2 didn't have the capability for FSD. HW2.5 didn't either, nor did HW3. Tesla knew all this and still sold the option to customers. Now they're on HW4 which Tesla says totally has the power for FSD, trust us! If HW4 is the magic bullet for FSD but can't be retrofit to HW3 vehicles, how is everyone who paid for FSD and has HW3 going to get FSD?

They're not. That's why there's a lawsuit.

For all of the Tesla apologists Imagine if Apple or Samsung promised that their phones would be upgraded to a newer technology but the hardware couldn't support it. People would be up in arms about how they want their money back or whatever. Actually Apple did pull this stunt with the iPhone 4 back in the day. My htc had a wimax reciever making it 4G capable. The iPhone 4 and 4s didn't have an LTE nor wimax chip. It was impossible for it to have actual 4G. Apple tweaked their software to allow for faster data but no matter how you sliced it they weren't capable. My dad has worked in the telecommunication software side for years. A couple of my co-workers refused to believe me because why would Apple lie?

 

[SammyChevelleTypeS3]

Elon comitted suicide quite a while back without even knowing it. He painted a big fat bulls eye onto his back the moment he took over
that foolish thing called twitter and now called what? XYZ? I really do not know much about him I keep finding out daily but I believe one thing for sure. He has hung himself thru many of his actions and words. IN BEFORE THE LOCK

 

[demarpaint]

And?

Neat trip but it's not FSD (aka SAE J3016 Level 5) because FSD doesn't exist. That's the point of the lawsuit.

Tens of thousands of Tesla customers, going as far back as 2016, paid real money for FSD.

Here it is, 2024, and there's still no FSD for those customers that paid for it. Thing is, it's not even that. It's that those customers will likely never see FSD on their vehicles because of the hardware level. HW2 and HW2.5 are able to be retrofitted to HW3. Great, but HW3 still doesn't have FSD. Now, Tesla has moved on to HW4 and Elon himself has said there will be no hardware retrofits from HW3 to HW4.

So where does that leave all those customers who bought (and still don't have) FSD that are running HW3? They paid for FSD but don't have FSD. They got their hardware retrofits, still no FSD. Tesla has moved to a new hardware level that can't be retrofitted.

The lawsuit alleges that HW2 didn't have the capability for FSD. HW2.5 didn't either, nor did HW3. Tesla knew all this and still sold the option to customers. Now they're on HW4 which Tesla says totally has the power for FSD, trust us! If HW4 is the magic bullet for FSD but can't be retrofit to HW3 vehicles, how is everyone who paid for FSD and has HW3 going to get FSD?

They're not. That's why there's a lawsuit.

Hopefully Tesla loses the lawsuit and they learn something by it. Flame suit on. Sending prayers to those who died because of the system.

 

[SammyChevelleTypeS3]

For all of the Tesla apologists Imagine if Apple or Samsung promised that their phones would be upgraded to a newer technology but the hardware couldn't support it. People would be up in arms about how they want their money back or whatever. Actually Apple did pull this stunt with the iPhone 4 back in the day. My htc had a wimax reciever making it 4G capable. The iPhone 4 and 4s didn't have an LTE nor wimax chip. It was impossible for it to have actual 4G. Apple tweaked their software to allow for faster data but no matter how you sliced it they weren't capable. My dad has worked in the telecommunication software side for years. A couple of my co-workers refused to believe me because why would Apple lie?

Was Apple or anyone investigated or sued over what you mention?

 

[ragtoplvr]

Elon is a flawed human like us all. He has too much power and sadly no friends he can count on for perspective. I know some of the turmoil high IQ can cause, and I feel sorry for him. He has to find his own way out. I wish him luck, he will need it,

Space X is the more valuable thing, hope it survives. Good luck Elon

Rod

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Apparently Elons antics are starting to catch up. Meanwhile, the company faces federal probes into whether defects in its Autopilot driver-assistance feature have contributed to fatal crashes, as well as regulatory investigations and lawsuits over claims that it has over-hyped its progress. Last month, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration opened a probe into whether the EV maker’s recall of more than 2 million cars months earlier adequately addressed Autopilot safety risks.
Here’s a little more from Reuters on just what the lawsuit covers and who can be involved:

I blame the idiots in government who’ve allowed this stuff just as much as the people who’ve abused the technology. There have been plenty of sci-fi movies that foretold what happens when people place excessive, misguided faith in machines.

 

[Torrid]

This past week a model 3 went off the road down an embankment hitting a tree killing the driver using Autopilot. People don't learn.

If they were actually using AutoPilot, that’s just their stupid name for adaptive cruise control with lane keep assist, if they even had the box checked for lane keep assist. My wife corrects me on this all the time because I think the terminology is stupid and makes no sense to me. I also don’t know why it’s the automatic assumption that every wrecked Tesla is using FSD.

I have all this stuff shut off and only use the adaptive cruise and have late automatic emergency braking still active. More than that and the car beeps and yells at me while driving and I find that annoying.

 

[DwightFrye]

I know a few of you with EDS are gleeful reading stories like this.
I guess you are unaware that we live in a time where lawfare and DEI judges and prosecutors and weasel lawyers are suing for anything and everything because they don't like the politics of an individual and see their power as a way to punish them.

These cases are rarely won on any merits but are successful in getting money through settlements and ruining reputations through clickbait headlines and sycophantic media talking heads who like to pile on.

So I hope the story makes you feel better about yourselves. The rest of us see it as just another ho-hum anti-EV and anti- Elon Musk report that will mean very little in the end.

 

[SammyChevelleTypeS3]

I know a few of you with EDS are gleeful reading stories like this.
I guess you are unaware that we live in a time where lawfare and DEI judges and prosecutors and weasel lawyers are suing for anything and everything because they don't like the politics of an individual and see their power as a way to punish them.

These cases are rarely won on any merits but are successful in getting money through settlements and ruining reputations through clickbait headlines and sycophantic media talking heads who like to pile on.

So I hope the story makes you feel better about yourselves. The rest of us see it as just another ho-hum anti-EV and anti- Elon Musk report that will mean very little in the end.

I try to go thru my days without any place for "hate" in my life as I am sure-well hopeful many of us try to live that way. But I certainly do "hate" to see what you mentioned that is going on in our world as of late. I hate to see ANYONE destroyed or drug thru courts with all sorts of trashing of the individual with media trying to dig up all sorts of trash on the person simply because they do not agree or dance to the tune of some people.

 

[97prizm]

I know a few of you with EDS are gleeful reading stories like this.
I guess you are unaware that we live in a time where lawfare and DEI judges and prosecutors and weasel lawyers are suing for anything and everything because they don't like the politics of an individual and see their power as a way to punish them.

These cases are rarely won on any merits but are successful in getting money through settlements and ruining reputations through clickbait headlines and sycophantic media talking heads who like to pile on.

So I hope the story makes you feel better about yourselves. The rest of us see it as just another ho-hum anti-EV and anti- Elon Musk report that will mean very little in the end.

Not sure why you have the need to come to Elsons defense. Show me another CEO that had guaranteed a product by the years end for nine years. Just curious. By all means in your professional career did you promise a project or product to your boss or customers for nine years and then still not have it? Most people get fired for that. People bought Teslas because of musks promise. They now want their money back and i don't blame them.
"“I think we are very close to achieving full self-driving without human supervision… I think we will achieve full self driving, depending on what level you call it, four or five, I think later this year.”-Elon Musk June 2023
"Tesla will achieve full self-driving later this year." -Elon Musk 2021

 

[JHZR2]

On Mothers Day.. our middle son drove 6 of us in his updated X from Sal Elijo Hills to Wilson Creek Winery in Temecula hands free including parking in a lined space. Smooth, changed lanes, speed control, distance and braking. Not across country but plenty of turns, different roads, signals, stop signs etc. Recall? lol A over the internet update..took hardly any time. I have no idea how this will end but my son and his better half drive thousands of miles a month. They used it before the update. Like it even more now. "Elon's antics"? Really?

The reasons for the Elon hatred, and these probes and lawsuits aren’t for discussion here, as they shift from actual technical matters to P-related.