Tesla taking SEMI orders

[skyactiv]

These electric trucks would work for line haul or dedicated. Either way with diesel being $6+ a gallon big companies like Swift will still see bottom line savings even if they have to spend a few bucks installing fast chargers at DC and Hubs.

It wouldn't work for all Swift drivers at the moment. Not every driver knows where they are going to park the truck and take their required break.
There simply isn't any charging availability at most places where a driver can take there required FMCSA break while keeping the truck rolling effectively for the amount of hours a driver can drive. Many truck drivers live in their semi while on the road.

So if a driver has 25 minutes of drivetime left and knows of a state rest stop 10 minutes away he can break at, he/she will probably go there.

Things will change in time.

What I don't want to see is these trucks catch on, go automated and see lots more trucks on the road. I think automated trucks will mean much less Intermodal rail service use. I bet the I-80 and the I-10 will be a parade of driverless battery powered semis in the future.

 

[OVERKILL]

It wouldn't work for all Swift drivers at the moment. Not every driver knows where they are going to park the truck and take their required break.
There simply isn't any charging availability at most places where a driver can take there required FMCSA break while keeping the truck rolling effectively for the amount of hours a driver can drive. Many truck drivers live in their semi while on the road.

So if a driver has 25 minutes of drivetime left and knows of a state rest stop 10 minutes away he can break at, he/she will probably go there.

Things will change in time.

What I don't want to see is these trucks catch on, go automated and see lots more trucks on the road. I think automated trucks will mean much less Intermodal rail service use. I bet the I-80 and the I-10 will be a parade of driverless battery powered semis in the future.

Indeed, destroying the roads, while not paying fuel taxes for the upkeep.

 

[Rand]

I'm not sure why we dont have some sort of chained delivery
drive trailer 300miles east drop it drive another trailer 300 miles west
sleep in your own bed at night.
type deal.

I guess because the system has to be massive for the economy to work.

 

[Cujet]

I'm not sure why we dont have some sort of chained delivery
drive trailer 300miles east drop it drive another trailer 300 miles west
sleep in your own bed at night.
type deal.

I guess because the system has to be massive for the economy to work.

Looking at the number of flat out enormous trucking warehouses going up near the interstates, I suspect that's exactly what's happening.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Indeed, destroying the roads, while not paying fuel taxes for the upkeep.

Won't take long, if not already done, to incorporate a road use tax tacked on to the cost of electricity at charging stations. If they can tack it on to liquid fuel, they can tack it on to electricity. Then it will probably also come to the home chargers at some point.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Somewhat surprised there isn’t some amount of grille to help cooling. They must use forced air between the frame rails…

Just need adequate air flow to remove the maximum anticipated battery heat from the liquid cooled battery cooling system.

Probably much less heat generated in the battery pack under full load than a big diesel engine under full load.

 

[OVERKILL]

Won't take long, if not already done, to incorporate a road use tax tacked on to the cost of electricity at charging stations. If they can tack it on to liquid fuel, they can tack it on to electricity. Then it will probably also come to the home chargers at some point.

Yep, exactly, and it has to happen. I've suggested a per kWh rider/charge which is the equivalent of a per gallon (or per litre) fuel tax. larger consumers (like OTR trucks) will use more kWh, thus pay more tax, which corresponds with their greater level of wear and tear on the infrastructure.

Of course they've avoided this so far because it would impact the rate of EV uptake, one of the primary drivers of course being that it's cheaper than gas.

 

[billt460]

This is a cut and paste from Quora, on a truck driver talking about the range on Tesla's new EV Semi, compared to his 2015 Volvo semi. He makes some pretty defining points based on facts and common sense.

How does the Tesla Semi's range compare to other trucks?

Answer (1 of 16): TL/DR: Some Electric Trucks have a range of 1000 km (620 miles) or more, but there’s a (big) catch. The Freightliner eCascadia has a range of about 250 miles, which is less than Tesla, but the battery is correspondingly smaller/lighter (and, thus, the eCascadia can haul more ca...

www.quora.com

"This is my 2015 Volvo 730. It has two 150 gallon fuel tanks and averages around 6.5 mpg fully loaded at highway speeds of 65 to 75 mph.

I routinely go 1,000 to 1,400 miles between fill ups, and it generally takes 15 minutes or less to top off the tanks. That means on a hard week of running, I might spend a total of 45 minutes putting sufficient fuel in the rig to go 4,000+ miles.

Tesla claims their semi will go 500 miles on a full charge. Then it will need an absolute minimum of 30 minutes on the most powerful Supercharger around to recharge to 80% … at which point it'll only be good for another 400 miles, right?

And there's the rub. In many states a trucker can legally and easily drive 700 miles per day. Most OTR truckers won't even contemplate an EV rig until the range is a guaranteed 800+ miles under full load, at average highway speeds of 65 to 75 mph, across any terrain and at any temperature, from 125 to -40 Fahrenheit. That way we could drive our 700 miles per day and charge the rig while we take our 10 hour break.

So in order to go 4,000 miles per week, you're looking at spending well over 300 minutes sitting at a charging station - that's AT LEAST 5 hours the driver won't get paid for, vs. the 45 minutes for a diesel rig.

You see, the vast majority of OTR drivers are paid by the mile. We don't actually get paid for fueling - or charging the batteries. Raise your hand if you're willing to work at least five extra hours per week without compensation …

And of course, that's assuming you can find a semi charging station - I haven't seen a single one yet.

That's the true bottleneck. There will need to be several dozen chargers in every single one of the 2000+ truck stops in the country. No trucker wants to pull his Tesla semi (or any other EV rig) into a truck stop needing to charge, only to see that there's only six chargers and thirty rigs waiting in line to charge. He'd be waiting for hours before he even got to the charger to plug in, at which time he'd be wasting another 30 minutes minimum … meanwhile the diesel rig has come, fueled and gone and is 200 miles farther on down the road.

And I'll just throw in one more point. Everyone keeps saying how cheap it is to charge an EV vs. fill up a fuel tank. Well, that may be true if you're charging your car at home, but who's to say that in the future the truck stops and public charging stations won't charge several hundred dollars per charge? It's not like a 75′ semi can squeeze into a crowded car parking lot to plug in to a cheaper charger. If the truck stops own the only semi chargers around, they can set the rates and the truckers won't have any recourse but to pay.

p.s. - I’m writing this a bit later after kibitzing with a buddy of mine who reminded me of something we talked about long ago …

EV semi manufacturers are cheating. Their tractors are considerably heavier than diesel rigs like mine, so they’ve managed to BRIBE THE POLITICIANS into increasing the allowable weight limits for EV semis so they can compete. There are innumerable articles about this, but it boils down to this, from our very own FHWA.gov: ”Vehicle weight limitations - Natural Gas and Electric Battery Vehicles (Sec. 422), which adds to existing vehicle weight limitation exemptions vehicles powered primarily by means of electric battery power and clarifies that these vehicles may exceed the weight limit on the power unit by up to 2,000 pounds.”

So here’s another area where EV semis are drastically inferior. If I know I’m heading to pick up a really heavy (legal) load, I can show up at the shipper with my tanks 3/4 empty. This lightens my rig by 1,300 to 1,400 pounds, increasing my payload capacity. Sure, I have to stop every 400 miles or so to splash a bit of fuel … makes me feel like an EV semi driver!

EV rigs won’t have that option - can’t take out half your batteries to lighten you up a bit. Guess you’ll have to keep paying off corrupt politicians to cheat your way into being barely competitive.

EDIT 7/22/’22: Y'all, I love all the comments, have read them all and responded to more than a few.

A significant percentage of the commenters seemed upset, carrying on about how the Tesla semi isn't intended for OTR long-haul routes but will do great in the local delivery sector.

I KNOW! I AGREE! I just want to say that I answered the question as asked: How does the range compare?

280 useable gallons x 6.5 average mpg = 1820 miles. Tesla claims full battery = 500 miles. That is how the range compares!

If you don't like my 100% factual answer, ask a different question."

 

[LDM]

Yep, exactly, and it has to happen. I've suggested a per kWh rider/charge which is the equivalent of a per gallon (or per litre) fuel tax. larger consumers (like OTR trucks) will use more kWh, thus pay more tax, which corresponds with their greater level of wear and tear on the infrastructure.

Of course they've avoided this so far because it would impact the rate of EV uptake, one of the primary drivers of course being that it's cheaper than gas.

Not only that but with the new smart meters they will be able to tell who is charging what and then charge more for when you happen to plug in your electric car at home. Ameren Cilco is already talking about this for Illinois, they spent the last few years upgraded everyone to smart meters not only so they can read your meter remotely but also so they can shut off smart appliances when the grid is under heavy load to save power. It also allows them to know when an electric car is plugged in and charging since it uses the same technology as those smart devices. Those who adopted electric cars early under the guise of saving money by charging at home will be in for a big shock when they are getting charge $1-2 per kWh instead of the regular $.10-15 (what we pay around here, your numbers will vary) for regular device usage. Also, they can shut off the charging to your electric vehicle so you can wake up the next morning to a nearly empty battery and be able to do nothing but wait until it charges up.

 

[UncleDave]

This is a cut and paste from Quora, on a truck driver talking about the range on Tesla's new EV Semi, compared to his 2015 Volvo semi. He makes some pretty defining points based on facts and common sense.

How does the Tesla Semi's range compare to other trucks?

Answer (1 of 16): TL/DR: Some Electric Trucks have a range of 1000 km (620 miles) or more, but there’s a (big) catch. The Freightliner eCascadia has a range of about 250 miles, which is less than Tesla, but the battery is correspondingly smaller/lighter (and, thus, the eCascadia can haul more ca...

www.quora.com

"This is my 2015 Volvo 730. It has two 150 gallon fuel tanks and averages around 6.5 mpg fully loaded at highway speeds of 65 to 75 mph.

I routinely go 1,000 to 1,400 miles between fill ups, and it generally takes 15 minutes or less to top off the tanks. That means on a hard week of running, I might spend a total of 45 minutes putting sufficient fuel in the rig to go 4,000+ miles.

Tesla claims their semi will go 500 miles on a full charge. Then it will need an absolute minimum of 30 minutes on the most powerful Supercharger around to recharge to 80% … at which point it'll only be good for another 400 miles, right?

And there's the rub. In many states a trucker can legally and easily drive 700 miles per day. Most OTR truckers won't even contemplate an EV rig until the range is a guaranteed 800+ miles under full load, at average highway speeds of 65 to 75 mph, across any terrain and at any temperature, from 125 to -40 Fahrenheit. That way we could drive our 700 miles per day and charge the rig while we take our 10 hour break.

So in order to go 4,000 miles per week, you're looking at spending well over 300 minutes sitting at a charging station - that's AT LEAST 5 hours the driver won't get paid for, vs. the 45 minutes for a diesel rig.

You see, the vast majority of OTR drivers are paid by the mile. We don't actually get paid for fueling - or charging the batteries. Raise your hand if you're willing to work at least five extra hours per week without compensation …

And of course, that's assuming you can find a semi charging station - I haven't seen a single one yet.

That's the true bottleneck. There will need to be several dozen chargers in every single one of the 2000+ truck stops in the country. No trucker wants to pull his Tesla semi (or any other EV rig) into a truck stop needing to charge, only to see that there's only six chargers and thirty rigs waiting in line to charge. He'd be waiting for hours before he even got to the charger to plug in, at which time he'd be wasting another 30 minutes minimum … meanwhile the diesel rig has come, fueled and gone and is 200 miles farther on down the road.

And I'll just throw in one more point. Everyone keeps saying how cheap it is to charge an EV vs. fill up a fuel tank. Well, that may be true if you're charging your car at home, but who's to say that in the future the truck stops and public charging stations won't charge several hundred dollars per charge? It's not like a 75′ semi can squeeze into a crowded car parking lot to plug in to a cheaper charger. If the truck stops own the only semi chargers around, they can set the rates and the truckers won't have any recourse but to pay.

p.s. - I’m writing this a bit later after kibitzing with a buddy of mine who reminded me of something we talked about long ago …

EV semi manufacturers are cheating. Their tractors are considerably heavier than diesel rigs like mine, so they’ve managed to BRIBE THE POLITICIANS into increasing the allowable weight limits for EV semis so they can compete. There are innumerable articles about this, but it boils down to this, from our very own FHWA.gov: ”Vehicle weight limitations - Natural Gas and Electric Battery Vehicles (Sec. 422), which adds to existing vehicle weight limitation exemptions vehicles powered primarily by means of electric battery power and clarifies that these vehicles may exceed the weight limit on the power unit by up to 2,000 pounds.”

So here’s another area where EV semis are drastically inferior. If I know I’m heading to pick up a really heavy (legal) load, I can show up at the shipper with my tanks 3/4 empty. This lightens my rig by 1,300 to 1,400 pounds, increasing my payload capacity. Sure, I have to stop every 400 miles or so to splash a bit of fuel … makes me feel like an EV semi driver!

EV rigs won’t have that option - can’t take out half your batteries to lighten you up a bit. Guess you’ll have to keep paying off corrupt politicians to cheat your way into being barely competitive.

EDIT 7/22/’22: Y'all, I love all the comments, have read them all and responded to more than a few.

A significant percentage of the commenters seemed upset, carrying on about how the Tesla semi isn't intended for OTR long-haul routes but will do great in the local delivery sector.

I KNOW! I AGREE! I just want to say that I answered the question as asked: How does the range compare?

280 useable gallons x 6.5 average mpg = 1820 miles. Tesla claims full battery = 500 miles. That is how the range compares!

If you don't like my 100% factual answer, ask a different question."

The above is mostly true, but at the same time misses the point entirely.
EV aren't going to replace long haul truckers/ trucks for a long time, but they will short and intra state ones.
Diesel will get regulated out of the heart of cities.

This is why nearly every manufacturer is working on them, some further along than tesla.

Now on Tesla taking orders - who cares. Lets see them ship the thing.
The 4680 form factor is what made the numbers somewhat work, they still have a log way to go.

 

[JeffKeryk]

This is a cut and paste from Quora, on a truck driver talking about the range on Tesla's new EV Semi, compared to his 2015 Volvo semi. He makes some pretty defining points based on facts and common sense.

How does the Tesla Semi's range compare to other trucks?

Answer (1 of 16): TL/DR: Some Electric Trucks have a range of 1000 km (620 miles) or more, but there’s a (big) catch. The Freightliner eCascadia has a range of about 250 miles, which is less than Tesla, but the battery is correspondingly smaller/lighter (and, thus, the eCascadia can haul more ca...

www.quora.com

"This is my 2015 Volvo 730. It has two 150 gallon fuel tanks and averages around 6.5 mpg fully loaded at highway speeds of 65 to 75 mph.

I routinely go 1,000 to 1,400 miles between fill ups, and it generally takes 15 minutes or less to top off the tanks. That means on a hard week of running, I might spend a total of 45 minutes putting sufficient fuel in the rig to go 4,000+ miles.

Tesla claims their semi will go 500 miles on a full charge. Then it will need an absolute minimum of 30 minutes on the most powerful Supercharger around to recharge to 80% … at which point it'll only be good for another 400 miles, right?

And there's the rub. In many states a trucker can legally and easily drive 700 miles per day. Most OTR truckers won't even contemplate an EV rig until the range is a guaranteed 800+ miles under full load, at average highway speeds of 65 to 75 mph, across any terrain and at any temperature, from 125 to -40 Fahrenheit. That way we could drive our 700 miles per day and charge the rig while we take our 10 hour break.

So in order to go 4,000 miles per week, you're looking at spending well over 300 minutes sitting at a charging station - that's AT LEAST 5 hours the driver won't get paid for, vs. the 45 minutes for a diesel rig.

You see, the vast majority of OTR drivers are paid by the mile. We don't actually get paid for fueling - or charging the batteries. Raise your hand if you're willing to work at least five extra hours per week without compensation …

And of course, that's assuming you can find a semi charging station - I haven't seen a single one yet.

That's the true bottleneck. There will need to be several dozen chargers in every single one of the 2000+ truck stops in the country. No trucker wants to pull his Tesla semi (or any other EV rig) into a truck stop needing to charge, only to see that there's only six chargers and thirty rigs waiting in line to charge. He'd be waiting for hours before he even got to the charger to plug in, at which time he'd be wasting another 30 minutes minimum … meanwhile the diesel rig has come, fueled and gone and is 200 miles farther on down the road.

And I'll just throw in one more point. Everyone keeps saying how cheap it is to charge an EV vs. fill up a fuel tank. Well, that may be true if you're charging your car at home, but who's to say that in the future the truck stops and public charging stations won't charge several hundred dollars per charge? It's not like a 75′ semi can squeeze into a crowded car parking lot to plug in to a cheaper charger. If the truck stops own the only semi chargers around, they can set the rates and the truckers won't have any recourse but to pay.

p.s. - I’m writing this a bit later after kibitzing with a buddy of mine who reminded me of something we talked about long ago …

EV semi manufacturers are cheating. Their tractors are considerably heavier than diesel rigs like mine, so they’ve managed to BRIBE THE POLITICIANS into increasing the allowable weight limits for EV semis so they can compete. There are innumerable articles about this, but it boils down to this, from our very own FHWA.gov: ”Vehicle weight limitations - Natural Gas and Electric Battery Vehicles (Sec. 422), which adds to existing vehicle weight limitation exemptions vehicles powered primarily by means of electric battery power and clarifies that these vehicles may exceed the weight limit on the power unit by up to 2,000 pounds.”

So here’s another area where EV semis are drastically inferior. If I know I’m heading to pick up a really heavy (legal) load, I can show up at the shipper with my tanks 3/4 empty. This lightens my rig by 1,300 to 1,400 pounds, increasing my payload capacity. Sure, I have to stop every 400 miles or so to splash a bit of fuel … makes me feel like an EV semi driver!

EV rigs won’t have that option - can’t take out half your batteries to lighten you up a bit. Guess you’ll have to keep paying off corrupt politicians to cheat your way into being barely competitive.

EDIT 7/22/’22: Y'all, I love all the comments, have read them all and responded to more than a few.

A significant percentage of the commenters seemed upset, carrying on about how the Tesla semi isn't intended for OTR long-haul routes but will do great in the local delivery sector.

I KNOW! I AGREE! I just want to say that I answered the question as asked: How does the range compare?

280 useable gallons x 6.5 average mpg = 1820 miles. Tesla claims full battery = 500 miles. That is how the range compares!

If you don't like my 100% factual answer, ask a different question."

The Tesla SEMI is not even out yet, so we don't even know what real world range will be. They do have a lot of interest, though...
Having said that, this article omits EV benefits, such as minimal maintenance costs and great tech. Teslas know where all the chargers are, how many are in use and how many are not in service. I would not be surprised that the software could allow appointment charging to optimize travel time.
With EVs you learn to operate differently. You don't charge to full; you charge to destination. Charge to full during downtime. People often think of EV vehicles as ICE vehicles which is incorrect; they are different. This article is a prime example.
Each drivetrain has its benefits and drawbacks. Lile everything else, it depends on your use case.

 

[Cujet]

The Tesla SEMI is not even out yet, so we don't even know what real world range will be.

We kind of do. The HP required to move a truck is very well known. Modern diesels are 44% thermally efficient and we know the drivetrain losses and the fuel BTU and the fuel consumption.

We also know the battery capacity...

 

[JeffKeryk]

We kind of do. The HP required to move a truck is very well known. Modern diesels are 44% thermally efficient and we know the drivetrain losses and the fuel BTU and the fuel consumption.

We also know the battery capacity...

Agreed. And no one every called Tesla conservative on range numbers. Regardless, there will be good cases for the SEMI and horrible cases.

 

[1000MPH]

In the reveal Musk stated 80% of truck routes are less than 250 miles.
Ultimately, the idea is to charge while docked for zero additional downtime.
Did you guys see the Munro vid on the Amazon/Rivian EDV?

At the least, I'm interested to see what both can do.

 

[Spyderman24_7]

Of course there's LOTS of if/when being brought up on range, charging, charge stations, etc. One thing I question is the shape most roads will be in after a few years of lots more EVs that are clearly quite a bit heavier than ICE counterparts. Of course weight limits might continue to be enforced on semis, etc., but wouldn't surprise me if that gets overlooked along the way. Along with developing electrical infrastructure to keep up the roadways will clearly need improvement as well as many areas I venture to are far behind what should already be done.