Tesla scraps low-cost car plans amid fierce Chinese EV competition

[JHZR2]

If that’s true, Tesla is in big trouble.
The company is rudderless. All the promotion on how their products were going to be priced for the average American turned out to be a failure.
In addition, their products are not looked as high end and those manufactures will be in Tesla’s marketplace as well.
It’s clear the company is in turmoil shareholders had a value of Tesla 1.2 trillion dollars years ago and now shareholders have that value at $530 billion in rough numbers.
The stock is down 60% and more from its high.
Some good news will pop the stock maybe, Musk says Robo taxi will be in August of this year

Not just Tesla. The country.

Sure, TSLA is priced stupidly. And their “tech” probably is too. But they make stuff here, generally.

If we’re selling out to more homegrown Chinese makers, it’s just plain treacherous. The Sabre rattlers are talking about war with China in years, and idiots are buying their junk.

 

[Paco Pena]

There is nothing quite as exciting as a cheap Chinese lithium battery. Time will soon tell how good the cheap China made EV's are.

Paco

 

[Kira]

Since all this EV stuff started, I presumed some standardization had to be designed and built into batteries.

Just "go out and buy this immeasurably complex thing" didn't fit with what cars have always been.

Some of us steer clear of complex suspension systems due, in part, to the uncertainty of future parts availability. And I suppose some buy into this stuff.

The Singular Super Car of the Future seemed always to be a risky gamble. Just hearing what "y'all" have to say about Elon should be enough to scare anyone away from this completely half-baked product.

I mean, the super car of the future with bad interiors and other production flaws....Ford's big gamble which openly lied about range etc.
.....please. These vehicles appear to often be clown candy for big, gullible kiddies.

 

[PandaBear]

You can't value Tesla with the same method as Ford / GM / Toyota.

The market value it as a "tech" company full of potential growth. It may happen, it may not. In the recent past that changes direction a lot and it is a very volatile stock, with a lot of risk and possibility. You have to see whether it make sense for you, and whether you want to buy it because of that confidence or not.

I have tech stocks dropping more than 30% and I still buy more and hold for 10 years. I have also cashed out at peak or bottom on some tech stocks. You can't expect these to be AT&T and just get dividend and gradual growth.

 

[alarmguy]

Not just Tesla. The country.

Sure, TSLA is priced stupidly. And their “tech” probably is too. But they make stuff here, generally.

If we’re selling out to more homegrown Chinese makers, it’s just plain treacherous. The Sabre rattlers are talking about war with China in years, and idiots are buying their junk.

The sad part is Tesla only became profitable because of China during their first true profit year. Tesla also helped China with his/our EV technology, free of royalties(?)

Musk did everything humanly possible to become friends with the Communist party to enrich his company and shareholder profits and value. Now China will bury him in competition.

This all ok, im just saying Tesla is no different than any of us, all we are is talk, low price rules and for that reason it rules for me too.

We are all hypocrites, im so glad the majority of my years were during the good times here.
Even the devices we are communicating on are made in China. One of the most used internet communication applications in the world is Chinese owned and a direct threat to our country but we lack the willpower to ban it = TicToc

China owns us. i just found out even though pigs are raised here in the USA China owns 25% of all the pigs in the USA that we eat for pork. so that pork in your dinner most likely came from Chinese owned Smithfield foods.

So let’s keep supporting them do they can build their war machine to threaten us one day, I tried by voting but … no-one cares

 

[Snagglefoot]

Although Tesla was very successful in making a profit with their cars, and especially the US cars, , like many of the posts said, its tough to compete with the Chinese in the cheap car category. Instead, go back to the thing that powered Tesla in the first place. Many consider it a technology company not a auto manufacturer. In fact, Spacex is not financially linked to Tesla, yet Tesla's share price pumped every time Spacex had a successful launch. So, Elon wants to go back to the self driving cars to wow the world. He'll put all the cabbies out of work in the USA and then he'll start to incorporate AI to let the car make decisions, such as how likely is it for the fare to vomit in the back seat. The car can then turn down bad fares. This is just start! I'm watching for Johnny Cab!

 

[JHZR2]

The sad part is Tesla only became profitable because of China during their first true profit year. Tesla also helped China with his/our EV technology, free of royalties(?)

Musk did everything humanly possible to become friends with the Communist party to enrich his company and shareholder profits and value. Now China will bury him in competition.

This all ok, im just saying Tesla is no different than any of us, all we are is talk, low price rules and for that reason it rules for me too.

We are all hypocrites, im so glad the majority of my years were during the good times here.
Even the devices we are communicating on are made in China. One of the most used internet communication applications in the world is Chinese owned and a direct threat to our country but we lack the willpower to ban it = TicToc

China owns us. i just found out even though pigs are raised here in the USA China owns 25% of all the pigs in the USA that we eat for pork. so that pork in your dinner most likely came from Chinese owned Smithfield foods.

So let’s keep supporting them do they can build their war machine to threaten us one day, I tried by voting but … no-one cares

Unfortunately so true. If TSLA sells in China, fine. If they make product there for that market, OK. If they profit by tapping that market, ok.

Generally Im good with international competition. Until junk gets dumped on our market, destroys our capabilities to manufacture anything, leaves vast swatches of cities and manufacturing areas with unemployment and blight.

 

[JeffKeryk]

You can't value Tesla with the same method as Ford / GM / Toyota.

The market value it as a "tech" company full of potential growth. It may happen, it may not. In the recent past that changes direction a lot and it is a very volatile stock, with a lot of risk and possibility. You have to see whether it make sense for you, and whether you want to buy it because of that confidence or not.

I have tech stocks dropping more than 30% and I still buy more and hold for 10 years. I have also cashed out at peak or bottom on some tech stocks. You can't expect these to be AT&T and just get dividend and gradual growth.

Tech for the win!

 

[fdcg27]

It seems to me that the minimum acceptable range for an EV in this country for most buyers is 250 miles and buyers also seem unwilling to accept the rapid battery degradation that accompanies a lack of liquid cooling.
This kind of range makes a fairly large and heavy battery pack necessary and whether you assemble that pack in the US or in a lower wage environment probably has no material impact on the actual cost of it.
It may be that a $25K EV with good range and good pack temperature control is simply not possible today and whether the maker is Tesla or BYD via Mexico.
Looking at Chinese EVs in other markets that meet the range requirement, the MG EV starts out at the equivalent of $38.5K USD, so the Chinese don't seem all that able to seriously undercut Tesla and may therefore not be a factor in any decision Tesla makes to abandon its quest for a low priced EV.
It may simply be a matter of truly low cost being unobtainable with the current state of battery development.

 

[97prizm]

Is this true? Heck if I know. Why would Tesla make the robo taxi on the same platform but not the Model 2? Musk could put an end to this by coming out and stating it is false. If it is true, we will know soon enough. It will be a kick in the teeth to share holders like me.

Because Elon knows there isn't money in a low cost vehicle, and a "Robo taxi" will string along investors for years to come. Tesla engineers have repeatedly said that a "robo taxi" is decades away if its even possible.

 

[97prizm]

Or it could be the 25K car will be 30K, or , or, or. Lots of possibilities and opportunity to misquote or twist.
Or maybe Elon was moaning about not being able to make money on it, who knows.
Kind of hard to tell with Elon, he does get it wrong a bunch.

PandaBear nailed it. But those with EDS will continue to use the years old rumor of a $25k Tesla as a talking point to deride Elon Musk and Tesla as a auto manufacturer.

It was also Reuters who wrote a highly negative article regarding the value of Tesla stock predicting it would tank a few days ago after the Q1 2024 numbers were posted. All it takes is to have a look at TSLA;s daily closing value over a month or so to see the amount of fluctuation that occurs is fairly normal and Reuters was full of baloney.

Too bad it isn't print medium, I need something to line my parakeet cage.

Really? Tesla has also had to slash model y prices as they repeatedly have continued to manufacture more vehicles then demand. They have over $48,500 exceess model y's sitting on lots, and are now slashing additional money off. Tesla said last year they expected even greater sales than the 422k units in December but missed by a landslide. Other manufacturers were up in sales this quarter vs Teslas -8.5% drop in sales.

 

[PandaBear]

It seems to me that the minimum acceptable range for an EV in this country for most buyers is 250 miles and buyers also seem unwilling to accept the rapid battery degradation that accompanies a lack of liquid cooling.
This kind of range makes a fairly large and heavy battery pack necessary and whether you assemble that pack in the US or in a lower wage environment probably has no material impact on the actual cost of it.
It may be that a $25K EV with good range and good pack temperature control is simply not possible today and whether the maker is Tesla or BYD via Mexico.
Looking at Chinese EVs in other markets that meet the range requirement, the MG EV starts out at the equivalent of $38.5K USD, so the Chinese don't seem all that able to seriously undercut Tesla and may therefore not be a factor in any decision Tesla makes to abandon its quest for a low priced EV.
It may simply be a matter of truly low cost being unobtainable with the current state of battery development.

Something has to give. If you want those cheap WuLing EVs (glorified golf cart with higher speed) in China for $5k you probably can't use them outside of your cue de sac. Most American likely would look at an old EV and benchmark it against an old Prius, and the value would likely be above 15k if they are still "good" and then tank to 5k when they can't do much outside of teenager school commute don't mind crashing vehicle.

A realistic practical long range EV is likely what a Chevy Bolt is, and it won't be much cheaper to make than that. BYD may make something 2-3k cheaper by using those cheap CATL battery, or run some cheap LFP battery to 10-90% range instead. I think Nissan Leaf's sales is proof that people don't tolerate air cooled battery with their disposable durability, and would pick a 8 year old Tesla with 80% of its range left than a new Leaf.

Where would those cheap EV be useful? urban commute or small nation / state like Singapore, Hawaii, etc. They also have to have no grid problem (that basically stopped Taiwan and Japan from deploying EV completely) and not having to import LNG on a ship.

 

[JHZR2]

Something has to give. If you want those cheap WuLing EVs (glorified golf cart with higher speed) in China for $5k you probably can't use them outside of your cue de sac. Most American likely would look at an old EV and benchmark it against an old Prius, and the value would likely be above 15k if they are still "good" and then tank to 5k when they can't do much outside of teenager school commute don't mind crashing vehicle.

A realistic practical long range EV is likely what a Chevy Bolt is, and it won't be much cheaper to make than that. BYD may make something 2-3k cheaper by using those cheap CATL battery, or run some cheap LFP battery to 10-90% range instead. I think Nissan Leaf's sales is proof that people don't tolerate air cooled battery with their disposable durability, and would pick a 8 year old Tesla with 80% of its range left than a new Leaf.

Where would those cheap EV be useful? urban commute or small nation / state like Singapore, Hawaii, etc. They also have to have no grid problem (that basically stopped Taiwan and Japan from deploying EV completely) and not having to import LNG on a ship.

It’s not for that at all. It’s a Trojan horse to undermine American manufacturing. And most people are too dumb to recognize it. They just do what feels good.

So subsidize Chinese EV, dismantle American manufacturing to the greatest extent, then when the time comes to reunify Taiwan or do whatever they wish next, who has the manufacturing capability to fight it??!?

 

[wag123]

Tesla has a Gigafactory in Shanghai China. It wouldn't be much of a problem to double or triple it's size. They could mass produce a less expensive product for roughly half the cost of their other plants (because there is also economy of scale) and distribute them worldwide. It is truly a world economy now days. That is just the way that it is. America has to embrace this reality and produce products that are wanted and valued worldwide.

 

[Snagglefoot]

I can see it now. The Tesla Jonny cab will think “ if I get off I-5 and swing by the LA bus depot and cut through the ghetto, I can save 5 minutes on the way to the arena. Plus I can set my windshield wiped with a greasy rag.

 

[buster]

"When Chinese EVs selling price in foreign markets is lower than their BOM price in China, it’s a clear indication that the CCP is unfairly providing subsidies to Chinese manufacturers, irrespective how Wang wanted to spin. China industrial production-efficiency index is still far lower than SK or JP. So again, the CCP is not speaking the truth.The PRC can’t run away and hide behind soundbites, legalese, denials and accusations. Unless the PRC reforms its trade practices, it is inevitable that tariffs would soon hit Chinese EV and green products manufacturers very hard. Once the weight of unsold and unexported Chinese goods pile up at ports and warehouses, the PRC would face another hurdle of its own making. Now everyone will play hardball against the CCP."

 

[Dave Hess]

Nobody on global stage even listens to that puppet Yellen.

 

[Torrid]

View attachment 213018

When Chinese EVs selling price in foreign markets is lower than their BOM price in China, it’s a clear indication that the CCP is unfairly providing subsidies to Chinese manufacturers, irrespective how Wang wanted to spin. China industrial production-efficiency index is still far lower than SK or JP. So again, the CCP is not speaking the truth.The PRC can’t run away and hide behind soundbites, legalese, denials and accusations. Unless the PRC reforms its trade practices, it is inevitable that tariffs would soon hit Chinese EV and green products manufacturers very hard. Once the weight of unsold and unexported Chinese goods pile up at ports and warehouses, the PRC would face another hurdle of its own making. Now everyone will play hardball against the CCP.

Win by any means necessary.

 

[alarmguy]

View attachment 213018

When Chinese EVs selling price in foreign markets is lower than their BOM price in China, it’s a clear indication that the CCP is unfairly providing subsidies to Chinese manufacturers, irrespective how Wang wanted to spin. China industrial production-efficiency index is still far lower than SK or JP. So again, the CCP is not speaking the truth.The PRC can’t run away and hide behind soundbites, legalese, denials and accusations. Unless the PRC reforms its trade practices, it is inevitable that tariffs would soon hit Chinese EV and green products manufacturers very hard. Once the weight of unsold and unexported Chinese goods pile up at ports and warehouses, the PRC would face another hurdle of its own making. Now everyone will play hardball against the CCP.

Arent we providing subsides of $7,500 to purchase only made in USA Electric Vehicles?
Though I do get it regarding China but as an American patriot and a consumer Im not sure one can speak about the other.
We massively subsidize American produced EV's I think more than that of China, up to 25% of the purchase price on a $30,000 EV and 20% on a $40,000 EV and so on ... we alone put every imported EV or substantial amount of parts for an EV from around the world at a disadvantage. Is Yellen aware of this? I hope so, seems like grandstanding to me for ..... I dont know what for.
(have to end it here, this will spiral out of control into politics and not allowed here)

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

With Chinese CATL cells???

Manufactured under license. Iirc.