Tesla 4680 battery

[Cujet]

YET.

But it will happen.

I agree and hope so. However, it is good to know that battery technology is very mature. The 18650 is still more than good enough to power a Plaid into the record books. the 2170 does a wonderful job in the model 3 and Rivian. Upcoming stuff will have charge speed and thermal management improvements. GM and Ford are using pouch cell tech from 15 years ago. Easy to make, cheap and powerful. it is my opinion they are less reliable.

 

[E365]

“The repairability of this is essentially zero”

 

[UncleDave]

Not surprised at all.

Seems relatively easy to swap the pack though.

 

[JohnnyG]

Yes, and my money is on Tesla to do it. They are so far ahead... A great American company!

If you say so. I have a very different opinion.

 

[E365]

“The Kilowatts” just weighed a 4680 equipped Model Y. Only 20lbs lighter than a 2170 Fremont built Model Y.

4680s are aren’t exactly living up to the hype, so far. Charging tests show it doesn’t charge much faster than 2170 cars, if at all. Hopefully that’ll get OTA’d for faster charging eventually as they get more user data in.

 

[JeffKeryk]

“The Kilowatts” just weighed a 4680 equipped Model Y. Only 20lbs lighter than a 2170 Fremont built Model Y.

4680s are aren’t exactly living up to the hype, so far. Charging tests show it doesn’t charge much faster than 2170 cars, if at all. Hopefully that’ll get OTA’d for faster charging eventually as they get more user data in.

I understand the benefit to be they can charge to 100% with less degredation.
I charge to 80% or 90%

What hype are you referring to? I ask because the next Tesla I buy should have new battery technology to make it worthwile.

 

[OVERKILL]

“The Kilowatts” just weighed a 4680 equipped Model Y. Only 20lbs lighter than a 2170 Fremont built Model Y.

4680s are aren’t exactly living up to the hype, so far. Charging tests show it doesn’t charge much faster than 2170 cars, if at all. Hopefully that’ll get OTA’d for faster charging eventually as they get more user data in.

Is the 4680 car also one that uses the big ass cast aluminum frame section; the "gigacast"?

 

[E365]

Is the 4680 car also one that uses the big ass cast aluminum frame section; the "gigacast"?

Yes. The 2020 Tesla battery day slide show claimed a 10% weight reduction with the 4680s and cast structure components. At least in this test (**assuming it’s accurate**), it’s about 0%.

We shall see, but the biggest benefit to 4680s and cast components, might just be in faster/easier/cheaper manufacturing, not necessarily much more capable EVs.

 

[sk_pete]

not fan of litium

 

[UncleDave]

not fan of litium

That video is about cobalt, and the 4680 uses none.

Most lithium comes from Australia.

 

[E365]

That video is about cobalt, and the 4680 uses none.

We shall see. The Limiting Factor tore down a pre-production 4680 and it does contain Cobalt.



Also sounds like the Panasonic supplied 4680s will also use Cobalt.

https://www.reuters.com/technology/panasonic-unveils-prototype-battery-tesla-2021-10-25/

Cobalt-free for all batteries is the goal, but it doesn’t sound like they’re there quite yet.

 

[Cujet]

I'm not convinced battery energy density is improving. I do like the fact that the 4680 is well configured for thermal management and fast charge. As I understand it, the now ancient 18650 is good enough for the Tesla Plaid and world class performance. The 4680 has the above advantages. At the moment, the first application of the 4680 seems to be simply a variation of a removable battery pack.

 

[UncleDave]

We shall see. The Limiting Factor tore down a pre-production 4680 and it does contain Cobalt.



Also sounds like the Panasonic supplied 4680s will also use Cobalt.

https://www.reuters.com/technology/panasonic-unveils-prototype-battery-tesla-2021-10-25/

Cobalt-free for all batteries is the goal, but it doesn’t sound like they’re there quite yet.

This guys video is great - thanks although he says he didn't actually have a battery to test from a pack so well soon see.

The original design intent was no cobalt - maybe they backslid.

https://eepower.com/new-industry-products/teslas-4680-a-cobalt-free-silicon-battery-solution/#


Be it lithium, or cobalt no product in the history of man has been bloodier than oil I can find.

 

[E365]

Volume Panasonic 4680 production for Tesla pushed back well into 2024.

https://www.reuters.com/technology/...tesla-battery-improve-performance-2023-05-10/

Not long after this story about 4680 production issues at Tesla.

https://www.reuters.com/business/au...ers-address-4680-battery-concerns-2023-03-10/

 

[DwightFrye]

I was involved in the dry battery electrode project which eventually became the key component in the 4680 cells just prior to my retirement. It was known at the time that to achieve the goals a completely dry anode and cathode coating method would be necessary. These types of developments are very expensive to do as they require a lot of experimentation, new equipment, and a highly talented and innovative team of engineers.

This is where Tesla has the resources and their competitors do not. And I also find it interesting that the article mentions that eventually all 4680 production will be done in North America. I have been saying for a long time that part of Elon's long term plan is to so dominate the EV market with technology developed by Tesla that his competitors will have to either buy or license critical components from Tesla. And that means those competitors will possibly be buying 4680 cells from the Panasonic battery factory and paying tribute to Elon for each one sold. This will contribute to the revenue flow that Tesla will have. Provided all goes to plan anyway......

Tesla is not just a car company.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Tesla is not just a car company.

Vertical integration... Tesla's chip firmware programming helped them navigate the chip shortage by repurposing available chips. Now they are refining their own lithium.
Supply chain? Tesla wants to own it. Musk once said, "Tesla is a chain of start ups."

The maching that makes the machine...
"Tesla is absurdly vertically integrated compared to other auto companies or basically almost any company. We have a massive amount of internal manufacturing technology that we built ourselves.... It's like, okay, what are the things we want to make, design a machine that will make that thing, then we make the machine."

But Musk did not invent the idea of vertical integration. He borrowed it from Henry Ford, who opend up the automotive world to the masses with his Highland Park plant.