Temp. Gage Lower when switch to syn-oil?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Here's my theory , derived from common sense . Synthethic is claimed to be lighter than conventional oil , so would pass through engine quicker , causing less friction = heat , no ? It's also apparently slicker , making for less heat as well no ? Then that being the case , the syn-oil would quell the heat better , making the engine block less heated , therefore the coolant itself would be a bit cooler , affecting the thermostat to open slower , therefore taking a bit longer to reach normal cooling range and the temp gage needle being a bit lower .
pat2.gif
 
forgot to the mention that the cooler the tempature is outdoors , the longer to heat up .
pat2.gif
Should've had a v-8 .
 
Don't want to carry on with the argument but if your engine is having difficulties getting up to normal operating temp, check and replace your thermostat right away. Just don't assume that your 7 yr old thermostat is going to hold up for you after so many years of faithful service.

IMO your drop in dashboard temp gauge reading to your recent changes to syn oil is just pure coincidental. I will never take on the claim that "syn" motor bears such superior heat-dissipating properties so much so that it will affect your water jacket temperature with such a large impact that will be reflected on your water temp gauge reading on your dashboard.

Lastly: in the US definition of "full syn" oil can be a mixture from gp3(Mobil 1, Pennzoil Platinum, etc.) all the way to pure gp5 (fancy boutique oil), whereas most recent API SM/ILSAC GF4 grade regular motor oil has become a blend of gp1, gp 2 or even gp 3 that there is never a true way to differentiate between the "real" mcCoy (syn) and a blend.

My 2c's worth.
So, how are you going to call your syn oil today???
 
the techs at the major manufacturers , plus the other posts claiming a slight drop of the temp gage , I suppose . Maybe I'm just imagining these things . " You Can't Argue With A Sick Mind " , referring to myself .
crazy.gif
grin.gif
 
Quote:


Don't want to carry on with the argument but if your engine is having difficulties getting up to normal operating temp, check and replace your thermostat right away. Just don't assume that your 7 yr old thermostat is going to hold up for you after so many years of faithful service.





What about thermostats in vehicles with only 3K?
confused.gif
You're telling me they are haywire too?
shocked.gif


There's been enough said at this messageboard in the 3-4 years that I've been reading - to claim some merit that many synthetics are slightly cooler at operating temperature. In both instances where I have changed from conventional to synthetic at 3K, I have found a slightly cooler temperature gauge afterwards.

My proof is in what I see & read with my own eyes. Please don't tell me I'm seeing/reading things incorrecly.

By-the-way....where's your proof?
 
Fundamental question RE: purpose of engine lubricant is to lubricate (reduce mechanical friction is the primary goal) and also serve as a medium in transferal of heat off of various engine parts (bearings and other friction surfaces, moving parts, cylinder walls, various different points on pistons, etc.)

In a water-cooled spark ignition internal combustion engine, water, as a form of coolant, absorbs approx. 36% of total power loss through water heating (water jacket), whereas friction comprised of 6% of power loss.

http://ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/102spring200...%20-%20Main.htm

http://ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/102spring200...er%20losses.htm

Due to the fact that in a water-cooled IC engine, coolant takes on about 1/3 of the entire thermal energy loss and also serves as the primary medium for heat conduction/transferal (more surface area for water jackets to absorb/transfer heat away from critical components such as cylinder head, engine block, intake manifold, spark plug hole area, etc. than that of the motor oil lubricating area), only relatively small portion of heat transfer/conduction performed by the engine oil when served as lubricant (typically only a few % points).

Let’s shift the focus to engine lubricant RE: whether there is additional benefits in friction reduction when switching from regular motor oil (of the same viscosity and API grade) to equivalent synthetic lubricant of the same viscosity and API grade would result in significant friction reduction to sufficiently lower the energy loss in terms of friction:

http://me.engin.umich.edu/autolab/Projects/SIEngineTribo_aux2.html

(*FMEP-Friction Means Effective Pressure, referencing to SAE paper 2002-01-2681 research paper*)

Look closely and you shall see that the difference between oil sample 1 and 2 (mineral 5W30 vs synthetic 5W30) FMEP in bar unit is pretty much less than 0.05bar (nominal), which is relatively insignificant (taking baseline oil 1 vs oil 2 as an example), your best case scenario would be around 3~4% of difference over the denominator of 1.2bar (baseline) in terms of friction reduction.

Now, given the fact that about 6% of the total energy comes in the form of friction within the engine, the additional 4% savings in form of friction reduction in 6% works out to less than 1% of energy gain in the total energy conversion.

So, you are telling me that your gain in that already minute gain (works out to approx. 4%) in that cumulative 6% friction energy loss in IC engine is going to have a significant impact to the 1/3 (36%)energy loss to the coolant (thermal management) is going to be obviously enough to cause an obvious needle deflection on your water temperature gauge on your dashboard?


The only exception to the rule would be extreme heavy duty IC engine which would require further heat exchange/conduction to maintain steady operating temperature mainly on mechanical(friction) parts, or air-cooled IC engines that would require more heat-transferral properties from engine lubricant to assist the relatively poor heat-conduction properties of air.

Also, more significant impact may be perceivable if your experimentation comprised of switching over from higher viscosity mineral engine oil to lower viscosity synthetic lubricant.

My proofs are in various university research papers and SAE papers....

now it's your turn to prove me wrong.
 
When I switched to Mobil 1 10W30 synthetic in my Z (from Valvoline conv),the engine was MUCH smoother and more free-reving. Then I switched to Mobil 1 15W50 and it was even smoother,more-free reving,and the thicker oil made the engine run much cooler. There was way lees heat coming from the engine bay after a day`s drive and the engine itself was actually cooler to the touch. The Z`s VG30DE engines love the thicker oils. Alot of Z enthusiasts recommend thicker oils (and also synthetics) on Z`s,especially the Twin Turbo models.

The Nissan FSM even recommends anything from 15W50-20W50 in the Z32 if you live in a warm to hot climate.

I also run Redline Watter Wetter as well in my cooling system.
 
With an oil that transmits heat better, and has less internal friction, you may take a little while longer to get the water temp up. It would be hard to really notice though, unless the old oil was very unsuitable.
 
Quote:




My proofs are in various university research papers and SAE papers....

now it's your turn to prove me wrong.




I'm giving you hands-on proof - you are showing me nothing but readsay research from an unknown, not sure what percentage of trust source.

I have no moticve/reason to lie. I neither work for - or in contract/sub-contract with any oil company.

Heres more "burning" proof I found:

My electronic/remote car starter is set for a 20 minute run. This is one of the same vehicles that I switched to synthetic at 3K and noticed cooler dash gauge readings with synthetic.

I always run the 20 minute remote start prior to an oil change. By the time 20 minutes are completed, I have all tools and products ready. When that engine shuts down, I'm under it within 60 seconds.

On both occasions - meaning changing the conventional oil at 3K - then synthetic at 9K, I was able to judge the hotness of the draining oil. In both cases of drains, the synthetic was cooler to the touch of my hand than the conventional. I've done this with two vehicles...ie... S10 and Colorado trucks. Both instances were the same.

I'm done here! Buy whatever group-oil that floats your boat. Just don't tell me that when two engines are run equally, that the conventional oil will feel the same temp as the synthetic -- also that the dashboard temp gauage will show exactly the same for both.

You see.. I have hands-on proof that your'e wrong. All you have for proof is a readsay piece of document.

Nice chatting with you -- but I'm out of this thread! Finger-burning proof and eyeballing the dash gauges is proof-enough.
 
What could account for lower temperatures?

Different basestocks could have different heat transfer properties, have different viscosities, and different friction modifiers.

I can't imagine lower coolant temps once the engine warms up, since there are thermostats.

I can imagine and have seen lower oil temps.
 
water-cooled IC engine can only be operated in a narrow thermal window (water coolant temperature range) in order to maximise energy conversion efficiency, minimise emissions, minimise mechanical wear, etc.

Most dash-board temp gauge are not accurate in reflecting the "true" coolant temperature (typical EFI designs rely on a separate temperature sensor for signal acquisition to the ECU, not just tapping it off of the same sensor that dashboard gauge uses). Also: mind you that similar to the argument between digital vs analogue speedometer; the scale-less temperature gauge on many vehicle's dashboard mainly serves as a slightly better visual indicator of your engine block water jacket temperature(what it's at, relatively-speaking), and there's never any accuracy to that (that's why there is no scale/markings in F or degrees C).

With recent M1 dropping into gp3 base whereas many mineral based oil has become a blend of gp1, gp2+ and/or sometimes even some gp3 base oil mix (semi-syn, such as motorcraft 5W20) in order to meet the ever-demanding ACEA/ILSAC specs, there is no clear definition what a real "syn" is here in US anymore(with the exception of boutique motor oils of gp4 base and beyond). Given this rather sad fact, I would not make such grand claim that by switching from so-and-so regular oil to M1 or similar gp3 oil of same API grade gives me instant benefits that would contribute to better engine cooling (enough to circumvent the water cooling system temperature which sadly has to absorb 1/3 of the total energy no matter how you look at it).

Unless there are research papers from SAE or from various technical disciplines from universities on these differences in a controlled, repeatable manner consistent to poster's observation, otherwise, your observation is just as good as any butt-dyno readings on the internet.


Nice Xing path with you bud!

You'll keep your burnt fingers and I'll keep my Otto cycle engine papers.
 
Oh and BTW:

I'm not saying that you are lying.

RE: http://me.engin.umich.edu/autolab/Projects/SIEngineTribo_aux2.html

This section comes from the department of mechanical engineering of University of Michigan, the premier research source and information supplier in the automotive field. Better yet: they are known to provide many SAE automotive field engineers and research-grade automotive engineers to the domestic 3, some Asian automotive manufacturers, etc.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom