I have a PH2 Tekton hard handle and it's my preferred driver by far when #2 is appropriate. It just feels so good -- not just the shape but there's something about the density and tactile feel of the handle.
Tekton's article on JIS drivers
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I restore a lot of Japanese motorcycle carburetors, made from the late 1970's into the 1980's. Vessel screwdrivers are my favorite, followed by PB Swiss. Old Sears Craftsman phillips don't fit the screw form well.
Another funny thing, JIS screws, such as those sold by Little Supply House don't fit as well into the driver compared to the old OEM type Japanese cross point screws, that have a dot on the head. A dot head screw, with Vessel driver, is about as good as it gets.
Another funny thing, JIS screws, such as those sold by Little Supply House don't fit as well into the driver compared to the old OEM type Japanese cross point screws, that have a dot on the head. A dot head screw, with Vessel driver, is about as good as it gets.
It was a great day when I got rid of my old Craftsman screwdrivers. I didn't know how much I disliked them until I got some good ones and got rid of them
I find this amusing. While I don't have any new "unpacked" tool sets I have several unused/rarely used ones. I have a set of screw drivers in my big vertical tool box in the garage. Right next to it I have a work bench with peg board above it with another set of screwdivers hanging there. I have the exact same setup in the basement shop. Naturally the peg board tools get used 10 times more than the ones in tool boxes. The extra 5 to 10 seconds it takes to pull out a drawer and find the right screwdriver means the job could take forever. (note I have sets of wrenches and various pliers also duplicated on the peg board and in the tool box drawers as well). I have a tool box full (at least three or four dozen) of broken, rounded off, and bent screwdrivers somehow thinking they'll be magically rejuvenated or maybe worth something if I keep them.
Exactly. It's sort of hard to describe. It's almost like a warm ceramic-like feel from all the glass. Feel bomb-proof although I haven't abused mine with a hammer so I can't say if it shatters.
These hard handle Tektons are my new favorite, so good and so reasonable. A really killer value.
Also, I buy the mini prybar sets (with the same handle material) as gift and lots of people seem to really enjoy them.
I use the mini pry bars daily! Also I'll use one on each side to lever up push-pin fasteners. Yeah, more complicated than the pliers but rather than an uncontrolled pull you get very controllable leverage.
I dunno how plastic can put up such a fight. I've begun lubing all push pins with silicone grease before installing.
I wonder about all the specs, ISO, JIS, ASME. It seems like almost every company has its own interpretation of the spec or just choose to ignore them completely. I guess that's why some screwdrivers fit better than others even among the brand names, the JIS screws on Japanese motorcycle brake and clutch cover in particular seem to have a high occurrence of being rounded out by a non spec fit Phillips.
Researching Phillips screws is really not the best use of my time at the moment. But I don't want to just close all these tabs and forget about it either, so here's some notes:
John Frearson patented cross-recessed screws and drivers in the UK, and later the US. [1][2]
Frearson's design became known as Frearson recess / Reed & Prince / Design II / Type II. [1][3][4][5]
Phillips patented two "groups" of cross-recessed screws, 'Group A' resembling Frearson's designs and 'Group B' being more-or-less the contemporary Phillips design (Design I / Type I). [6][7][8]
The original Phillips designs were not intended to cam-out. [6][7][8] However The Phillips Company's partner in crime, The American Screw Company, patented a modified design intended to prevent over-torquing. [9]
The Phillips Screw Company, The American Screw Company, and their licensees were sued by the US Government in 1947 for anti-competitive practices, partially in regard to licensing the Phillips design to J. Osawa & Co. of Japan. [6][10]
The JIS and DIN/ISO standards have all been consistent with regard to the dimensions of the Phillips recess and driver going back to the 50's. [4][5][11][12][13]
John Frearson patented cross-recessed screws and drivers in the UK, and later the US. [1][2]
Frearson's design became known as Frearson recess / Reed & Prince / Design II / Type II. [1][3][4][5]
Phillips patented two "groups" of cross-recessed screws, 'Group A' resembling Frearson's designs and 'Group B' being more-or-less the contemporary Phillips design (Design I / Type I). [6][7][8]
The original Phillips designs were not intended to cam-out. [6][7][8] However The Phillips Company's partner in crime, The American Screw Company, patented a modified design intended to prevent over-torquing. [9]
The Phillips Screw Company, The American Screw Company, and their licensees were sued by the US Government in 1947 for anti-competitive practices, partially in regard to licensing the Phillips design to J. Osawa & Co. of Japan. [6][10]
The JIS and DIN/ISO standards have all been consistent with regard to the dimensions of the Phillips recess and driver going back to the 50's. [4][5][11][12][13]
- https://progress-is-fine.blogspot.com/2012/11/vanished-tool-makes-reed-princefrearson.html
- https://www.google.com/books/editio...?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=RA26-PA1&printsec=frontcover
- https://andvari.substack.com/p/reed-and-prince-mfg
- Federal Specification FF-S-00109 among other AN/NAS/MIL specs
- ASME/ANSI B18.6.3-1972
- https://www.oregonencyclopedia.org/articles/phillips_screw_and_driver/
- US1908081A, US2046343A, US2046837A, US2046838A, US2046839A, US2046840A, US2474994A
- https://www.jstor.org/stable/26662796
- US2474994A, US2507231A
- https://www.justice.gov/atr/page/file/1149431/dl?inline
- MIL-S-971
- https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/jis-is-an-old-outdated-standard.541850/
- https://smallworkshop.co.uk/2022/10/01/japanese-screws-and-fasteners/
PosiDriv feels left out….
Are Hozan screwdrivers any good? They are made in Japan and cheaper than Vessel 
Looks like you guys broke the Tekton website with all the traffic this conversation drove there…
I would have never gotten these upset-thread screws out with out a (Vessel) JIS screwdriver.
Unfortunately the Tekton link isn’t working for me either. I’ve got my Vessel screwdrivers and they work very well on JIS screws and Phillips screws.
IMHO, companies that label their screwdrivers “Phillips” are not helping us at all. I want to know if their “Phillips” will work on JIS screws or not. For example, I’ve got a lot of older Craftsman screwdrivers, they are marked as PR Pratt reed or WF western forge. The PR “Phillips” screwdriver tips look very similar to my Vessels, and they work just fine on JIS screws. However, the WF “Phillips” screwdriver tips are shaped differently compared to the PR and Vessel drivers, and they absolutely round out/strip the heads of JIS screws. I also have these 5/16” bits from craftsman that fit into a hand-hammer type impact driver. Although they are labeled P2, P3 - they are shaped like the PR and vessels and work fine in JIS screws.
I think tool companies should make it absolutely clear that their + shaped drivers are either “JIS spec”, “compatible with JIS screws”, or “DIN 5260/ISO 8764-1 standard”. The term “Phillips” is not good enough, because some screwdrivers labeled “Phillips” work with JIS screws and others do not.
IMHO, companies that label their screwdrivers “Phillips” are not helping us at all. I want to know if their “Phillips” will work on JIS screws or not. For example, I’ve got a lot of older Craftsman screwdrivers, they are marked as PR Pratt reed or WF western forge. The PR “Phillips” screwdriver tips look very similar to my Vessels, and they work just fine on JIS screws. However, the WF “Phillips” screwdriver tips are shaped differently compared to the PR and Vessel drivers, and they absolutely round out/strip the heads of JIS screws. I also have these 5/16” bits from craftsman that fit into a hand-hammer type impact driver. Although they are labeled P2, P3 - they are shaped like the PR and vessels and work fine in JIS screws.
I think tool companies should make it absolutely clear that their + shaped drivers are either “JIS spec”, “compatible with JIS screws”, or “DIN 5260/ISO 8764-1 standard”. The term “Phillips” is not good enough, because some screwdrivers labeled “Phillips” work with JIS screws and others do not.
I have read they are decent but I never owned or used one that I can remember so I cant honestly say one way or another. Buy a couple and review them.Are Hozan screwdrivers any good? They are made in Japan and cheaper than Vessel
If you buy a Vessel JIS driver, it should work well on both.
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- Mar 8, 2022
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I have found that if I try a “Phillips” screwdriver in a cross head screw and it seems to slip too easy or the fit in the screw head looks sloppy, I touch the very tip on a grinder and it tightens the fit enough to make it work much better. Before you toss your screwdriver in file 13, give it a try.
Vessel ball grips are great, worth every penny. Once you use one and see how well they fit the screw heads, you will want more. The impact driver screwdriver does work that was my first Vessel tool, now I have a bunch of Vessel stuff