TCW3 and Ethanol Not Mixing

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Hi,

I use 75 percent E5 gasoline (95Ron/roz) 15 percent toluene and 10 percent ethanol as fuel in my car. (And also 30ml of TCW3 per 18 liters of total fuel) - This is done for octane enhancement purposes.

Today I've noticed that although TCW3 seems to happily dissolve in Toluene, it's not dissolving in ethanol and TCW3 droplets seem visible, the droplets seem to mix when ethanol with added tcw3 is vigorously shaked but reappear after some while.

1) Did anyone else run into the same problem?

2) Will this cause sudden leaning (afr) in individual cylinders or will the 75 percent gasoline easily dissolve droplets in the fuel tank if there are any?

3) Should I or should I not use TCW3 when using ethanol?

Info: Car is direct injected and turbocharged.

Many thanks in advance.
 
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I have stopped doing this for a few years now due to this exact reasons, more and more people are reporting failures in fuel systems due to this stuff doing exactly what you are saying! Proceed with caution!

Especially failures at fuel pump due to it not dissolving.
 
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I think you need to do this test again using actual gasoline. We have e10 here for years and no dissolving issues.. with tcw3 or tc oils
 
I'm not seeing how mixing or demising of tcw in EtOH is relevant to the overall mixture. If you're planning to blend then pour in the tank, then just mix in advance.

I'll say though that while I originally had interest in tcw to protect DI HPFPs, I noted even low doses causing more sooting on the tailpipe then when I ran gas neat. So I've stopped with that. Still use a splash of tcw in non-di engines thst sit long times.
 
I just put the 91 octane gasoline nozzle in the filler pipe and take it out when the nozzle clicks off. Then add three or four ounces of Techron.
 
I have not seen this with E10 using ST TCW3. If this were really a problem there would be MANY people seizing-up 2-cycle outboard engines, myself included. Perhaps the problem stems from the combination of toluene and ethanol in the gas? Also, how pure is the ethanol? What you could be seeing is actually water droplets forming in the ethanol or the oil dropping out if it is not at least 98% pure (196 proof).
 
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Originally Posted by wag123
I have not seen this with E10 using ST TCW3. If this were really a problem there would be MANY people seizing-up 2-cycle outboard engines, myself included. Perhaps the problem stems from the combination of toluene and ethanol in the gas? Also, how pure is the ethanol? What you could be seeing is actually water droplets forming in the ethanol or the oil dropping out if it is not at least 98% pure (196 proof).



Do 2 cycle outboards have a fuel system like a car? Not even comparable.

It's a issue with the gas and ethanol.....and solution not dissolving properly, and it usually settles at bottom when not dissolved.
 
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Originally Posted by Yah-Tah-Hey
I just put the 91 octane gasoline nozzle in the filler pipe and take it out when the nozzle clicks off. Then add three or four ounces of Techron.

Just curious. Other than a drain on the wallet, what has this achieved ? Or prevented?. Only once have noticed an improvement from a fuel additive and that was MMO. I don't use it on the Camrys , just BMWs and OPE
grin2.gif
 
That's one downside to ethanol is it's picky about being blended. Years ago when E85 first started coming around the racing circles, people were making their own blends of E85 with a high octane leaded race fuel and E98. They found they made less power and had more spark knock issues than E98 blended with cheap 87 pump gas. It was determined that TEL (lead) and ethanol would not blend, causing TEL to fall out of suspension, and actually reducing octane. Blending E98 with an unleaded race fuel of the same high octane as the leaded option generated the desired results. It's now a common practice when switching from a leaded race fuel to E85 (or C85 or X85 or E85-R) to completely flush all of the leaded fuel out of the system before pouring in E85.

EDIT: The same has been found to occur when adding a lead fuel supplement to E10 pump gas.
 
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Originally Posted by andyd
Originally Posted by Yah-Tah-Hey
I just put the 91 octane gasoline nozzle in the filler pipe and take it out when the nozzle clicks off. Then add three or four ounces of Techron.

Just curious. Other than a drain on the wallet, what has this achieved ? Or prevented?. Only once have noticed an improvement from a fuel additive and that was MMO. I don't use it on the Camrys , just BMWs and OPE
grin2.gif



It's more of a over time scenario, better fuel combusts better leaving behind less deposits. And some vehicles obtain better gas mileage on higher octane, depending on cpu ability to adjust for timing etc.
 
Originally Posted by domer10
Originally Posted by andyd
Originally Posted by Yah-Tah-Hey
I just put the 91 octane gasoline nozzle in the filler pipe and take it out when the nozzle clicks off. Then add three or four ounces of Techron.

Just curious. Other than a drain on the wallet, what has this achieved ? Or prevented?. Only once have noticed an improvement from a fuel additive and that was MMO. I don't use it on the Camrys , just BMWs and OPE
grin2.gif



It's more of a over time scenario, better fuel combusts better leaving behind less deposits. And some vehicles obtain better gas mileage on higher octane, depending on cpu ability to adjust for timing etc.


As a side note, reprogramming the CPU for more timing can give good results, as well as leaning out the air/fuel ratio. I remember some late 90s and early 2000s Subaru Impreza (non-turbo models) guys were finding 5-6 mpg from a tune while still able to use 87 octane. The spark curve from the factory was rediculously conservative at just 15-20* advanced at 2000-3000 rpm and part throttle and could easily take 30* on 87, up to 35* on 91-93. The air/fuel ratio cruising at 2500 rpm was 12.5-13.0:1 which is pig rich. They were able to lean that out to 14.0-15.0:1 without any ill effects.
 
I'm wondering if this is one of the reasons that some OPE manufactures don't recommend gasohol, even E10? Might be an interesting experiment to try 2-stroke oil with varying blends of unleaded pump gas (E10, E15, E85) and see if anything weird happens when the mixture sits for a few days.
 
I have about a quart of gas mixed with 2 cycle oil remaining for my line trimmer. Nothing has happened to the mix since early July. The mix is with E10. Is this something limited to TCW3?
 
The way I understand it TCW3 mixes well with E5 gas and hydrocarbons like Toluene and Xylene but doesn't with ethanol.

My main question is will it mix with E15 Gas?

P.S: Ethanol I use is %98 pure.
 
Originally Posted by domer10
Originally Posted by wag123
I have not seen this with E10 using ST TCW3. If this were really a problem there would be MANY people seizing-up 2-cycle outboard engines, myself included. Perhaps the problem stems from the combination of toluene and ethanol in the gas? Also, how pure is the ethanol? What you could be seeing is actually water droplets forming in the ethanol or the oil dropping out if it is not at least 98% pure (196 proof).



Do 2 cycle outboards have a fuel system like a car? Not even comparable.

It's a issue with the gas and ethanol.....and solution not dissolving properly, and it usually settles at bottom when not dissolved.
You know little about 2-cycle engines where the gas and oil need to be premixed. If the oil came out of suspension the engine would run on raw gasoline and seize.
 
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