Taking Kharg Island

[JimPghPA]

A few weeks ago, we sold 20,000 bombs to Isreal. If our intent, actual deep down intent, was to have this be a short war, and knowing that Isreal using those 20,000 bombs is gonna keep it going on, would we have sold that many bombs to Isreal.

The other use of bombs by isreal ( Gaza ) is not a fast consumption of bombs war. It's a pretend peace to suppress world outrage while continuing at a slow simmer instead of all out kill as many as you can as quick as you can use of weapons like it was in the past. So, what else does isrea need the majority of 20,000 bombs for. That right now only leaves Iran. Ya, appease the public with faints of it being a short engagement, while selling enough to the other country attacking Iran to keep it going on for months.

If you think that either Iran or Isreal have intent to end this soon, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I can sell you at a really fantastic price.

 

[Snagglefoot]

A few weeks ago, we sold 20,000 bombs to Isreal. If our intent, actual deep down intent, was to have this be a short war, and knowing that Isreal using those 20,000 bombs is gonna keep it going on, would we have sold that many bombs to Isreal.

The other use of bombs by isreal ( Gaza ) is not a fast consumption of bombs war. It's a pretend peace to suppress world outrage while continuing at a slow simmer instead of all out kill as many as you can as quick as you can use of weapons like it was in the past. So, what else does isrea need the majority of 20,000 bombs for. That right now only leaves Iran. Ya, appease the public with faints of it being a short engagement, while selling enough to the other country attacking Iran to keep it going on for months.

If you think that either Iran or Isreal have intent to end this soon, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I can sell you at a really fantastic price.

Add Lebanon to the mix and now you have a war on three fronts.

 

[Pew]

Add Lebanon to the mix and now you have a war on three fronts.

Add the cooperation of Iran, Taliban, Isis, and the surrounding unstable dictatorships, and we got Gulf War 3.0.

Fyi, The Messenger is a good movie for those who haven't watched it yet. Outside of the romance story.

 

[4wd]

 

[cheetah50]

What really gets me about this whole thing is whats our end goal ? Whats our objectives? They seem to change and sway as much as a flower in the wind. If we don't have a clear end goal, its hard to gauge how any one event (Taking Kharg) will get us closer (Closer to what?). I really hope I'm wrong, and Id be tickled to be wrong, but the only real thing I believe we've done here is made ourselves weaker on the global stage. We've expended a ton of good will, a ton of ammunition, and shown some of our weaknesses in broad daylight. If another country was looking to pounce, theirs scant been a better time in recent years.

 

[Snagglefoot]

Now, where are those darn propellers? Here is a screen shot to demonstrate there is a 2.7 Million TEU container port in Karachi.

 

[trd1zz]

No question with the drones. But they had a stockpile of 10's of thousands of missles. They were building them for a reason. Pay me now or pay me later" Kicking the can down the road for 47 years.....

I am not in favor of losing any more American lives in this thing. But my understanding is those Americans involved want to git-er-done. Destroy the grid, remove their access to oil, make it impossible for them to build a tricycle forever.

The other thing is that all our war toys are proven and they work. China knows this. Russia is a has been.

We will be looking at $2 gas next year. Yep call me optimistic. I have a Grandson in the Marines (served his active duty). I am guessing the loved ones of those 240 Marines feel different than you. I could be wrong.

No they are learning not to screw with us.


Their "home" will consist of no infrastructure

Destroy Iran's power grid putting 90 million people in a no power situation? Then Iran responds by droning all the desalination plants in the area resulting in no fresh water for anyone anywhere.

Might as well just launch some nukes.

 

[Snagglefoot]

Destroy Iran's power grid putting 90 million people in a no power situation? Then Iran responds by droning all the desalination plants in the area resulting in no fresh water for anyone anywhere.

Might as well just launch some nukes.

It would mean 90 million people pouring over the border into Iraq to join their brothers in Holy War.

 

[alarmguy]

Im not so sure we can take that island as easy as some might think, if Iran loses it, I would suspect they will shower it with bombs to inflict as much damage as they can on our forces.
So far, this entire thing has been a miscalculation as far as Iran capabilities to keep creating havoc among neighboring countries and lets face it, they succeeded and closed the ENTIRE Strait Of Hormuz even to this day and we are powerless to stop it. (so far)
They created their own toll system for ships to pass through the Strait by picking and choosing who gets to pass. Clearly this was not expected on our part and I am sure their still to this day capability to send out missiles was a miscalculation as well.

 

[Astro14]

It would mean 90 million people pouring over the border into Iraq to join their brothers in Holy War.

Really? Brothers? Iran and Iraq? Shia and Sunni?

They fought a war against each other for eight years, using chemical weapons on each other, killing over a half a million.

The divide is deep, religious and about 1,400 years old. There are lots of Shia in Iraq, but lots of Sunni as well.

Most of the violence and deaths in the Middle East stem from these religious divisions. Not the actions of the West.

In the past month, Shia-dominated Iran has been shooting missiles, sending drones, and attacking all of its largely Sunni neighbors.

You may get a few Iraqis (Shia) coming over to fight for Shia, but you will have a lot of Iraqis (Sunni) cheering victory for the other side.

Most Arabs are a bit fed up with the Persians.

In fact, if you would like some insight into how the Arab world views Iran, you need only look at the UAE. Situated on the other side of the Straight of Hormuz, the UAE is building large financial institutions and enduring businesses for the day when the oil runs out. So is Qatar, for example.

The country that spends the largest percent of its gross domestic product on defense, anywhere, outside Ukraine, is the UAE. They spend close to 16% while the USA in contrast spends about 3% and most of Europe is slightly below 2%. (Edit: I looked for a link to demonstrate that data. I was unable to find it, it’s just a number I remember from a brief many years ago, and it is possible that the number may not be the same for the UAE, but the principle most certainly is.)

But the UAE has been sitting across the Straight from an existential threat for nearly 5 decades. They knew. They planned for this kind of conflict. They knew what the religious fervor of their neighbors might drive them to do.

And Iran has responded exactly as the UAE feared - lashing out in an attempt to create a wider conflict, to destroy infrastructure around the Gulf.

Shia killing Sunni.

 

[burbguy82]

I would think the Air Strikes that have been executed already constitute war.

Just as targeting the US Marines and French Army, killing 307 in total, while they were in a different country, might be interpreted as war.

I don’t see how taking the island is much different.

True. Everything going on now is basically a war, without calling it one. It seems for the past 15 years air/missile/drone strikes are more 'tolerated' as compared to a land invasion.

I think some folks put to much an emphasis of an "official, by act of congress, declaration of war"

Warfare has changed since those rules were written. Axis vs Allies, red vs blue, etc. One could successfully argue that we have been is a constant state of war, at least since WW2, and that all the wars after that were simply a continued operation.

The widespread use of non conventional means, such as economic, psychological, electronic, and political operations, yields wins an losses that don't quantify until years later. And although the loss of assets and men can be minimal during these times, the overall impact in theater can be more devastating to a foe, than a kinetic operation.

Also, since WW2, warfare might be considered less gentlemanly....but I reckon that is another facet of modern warfare. Hard to win if you are letting the enemy know what you are doing, before you do it.

“To a surrounded enemy you must leave a way of escape. Show him there is a road to safety, and so create in his mind the idea that there is an alternative to death. Then strike.”​

― Sun Tzu, The Art of War


I think we have dabbled long enough, way too long actually. They declared war on us long ago, we just now decided to answer.

 

[Cropduster172]

I think some folks put to much an emphasis of an "official, by act of congress, declaration of war"

Warfare has changed since those rules were written. Axis vs Allies, red vs blue, etc. One could successfully argue that we have been is a constant state of war, at least since WW2, and that all the wars after that were simply a continued operation.

The widespread use of non conventional means, such as economic, psychological, electronic, and political operations, yields wins an losses that don't quantify until years later. And although the loss of assets and men can be minimal during these times, the overall impact in theater can be more devastating to a foe, than a kinetic operation.

Also, since WW2, warfare might be considered less gentlemanly....but I reckon that is another facet of modern warfare. Hard to win if you are letting the enemy know what you are doing, before you do it.

“To a surrounded enemy you must leave a way of escape. Show him there is a road to safety, and so create in his mind the idea that there is an alternative to death. Then strike.”​

― Sun Tzu, The Art of War


I think we have dabbled long enough, way too long actually. They declared war on us long ago, we just now decided to answer.

Very well put Sir.

 

[Snagglefoot]

Really? Brothers? Iran and Iraq? Shia and Sunni?

They fought a war against each other for eight years, using chemical weapons on each other, killing over a half a million.

The divide is deep, religious and about 1,400 years old. There are lots of Shia in Iraq, but lots of Sunni as well.

Most of the violence and deaths in the Middle East stem from these religious divisions. Not the actions of the West.

In the past month, Shia-dominated Iran has been shooting missiles, sending drones, and attacking all of its largely Sunni neighbors.

You may get a few Iraqis (Shia) coming over to fight for Shia, but you will have a lot of Iraqis (Sunni) cheering victory for the other side.

Most Arabs are a bit fed up with the Persians.

In fact, if you would like some insight into how the Arab world views Iran, you need only look at the UAE. Situated on the other side of the Straight of Hormuz, the UAE is building large financial institutions and enduring businesses for the day when the oil runs out. So is Qatar, for example.

The country that spends the largest percent of its gross domestic product on defense, anywhere, outside Ukraine, is the UAE. They spend close to 16% while the USA in contrast spends about 3% and most of Europe is slightly below 2%. (Edit: I looked for a link to demonstrate that data. I was unable to find it, it’s just a number I remember from a brief many years ago, and it is possible that the number may not be the same for the UAE, but the principle most certainly is.)

But the UAE has been sitting across the Straight from an existential threat for nearly 5 decades. They knew. They planned for this kind of conflict. They knew what the religious fervor of their neighbors might drive them to do.

And Iran has responded exactly as the UAE feared - lashing out in an attempt to create a wider conflict, to destroy infrastructure around the Gulf.

Shia killing Sunni.

Saddam was a Sunni. The majority in Iraq are Shia. Look it up.

 

[Dave Hess]

America can NOT win a ground war against Iran.

 

[Astro14]

Saddam was a Sunni. The majority in Iraq are Shia. Look it up.

I noted that in my post.

Supposing that the Iraqis will forget the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi dead at the hands of the Iranians in that war alone, not to mention the deaths since, made me laugh.

 

[Snagglefoot]

I noted that in my post.

Supposing that the Iraqis will forget the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi dead at the hands of the Iranians in that war alone, not to mention the deaths since, made me laugh.

The neat thing is we can watch how this turns out. We'll see.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Question from a purely military and strategic point of view.

Let me preface, I have no military experience whatsoever.

We have an excellent expeditionary force that train for these scenarios. How hard is it to pull this off?

I figure the Iranians wouldn't want to bomb their own fuel depots and infrastructure considering it provides 95% of their income.

I guess you'd have to worry about the locals? Maybe they would blow up their own fuel depot?

The island is around 8 square miles. Based on it's relatively small area a barrage of ballistic missiles can wipe everything out. Infrastructure can be rebuilt. If I were the Iranians I would wait until it has been taken and then light the match.

 

[SC Maintenance]

America can NOT win a ground war against Iran.

Depends on objective.

Return to cave dwelling. For sure.

Nation building. Nope.

There effectively isis now.

 

[4wd]

The island is around 8 square miles. Based on its relatively small area a barrage of ballistic missiles can wipe everything out. Infrastructure can be rebuilt. If I were the Iranians I would wait until it has been taken and then light the match.

Some are worried that it will tip over after the landing …

 

[4wd]

Saddam was a Sunni. The majority in Iraq are Shia. Look it up.

Last picture of him - he needed a Ba’ath