Synthetics are just NOT acheiving 15/25 K anymore?

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As promised....I have a friend that has a Dodge Durange 2006 with the 4.7 "under 300" cube engine. He does 50+ K a year and the engine runs well with zero comsumption between OCI's. The problem is 10K is about the limit of a safe OCI. He went 15K and the report came back abnormal with a 50wt oil that started out 5-30. I have not seen any over 15K OCI's lately out of v/6 or v/8's anymore. Mobil just went to a 16K limit with the EP formula. Redline say's 12K....is Amsoil going to need to follow suit?

Desc: GASOLINE ENGINE Fuel Type: Gasoline 2206 WINTER STREETSUPERIOR, WI 54880(715)395-0222FAX (715)392-3097
Make: Oil Brand: AMSOIL
Model: Oil Type: ASL 5-30
Equip. Make: DODGE
Model: DURANGO
SPECTROCHEMICAL ANALYSIS (ppm)

2528 Abnormal 07-NOV-0621-NOV-0 Oil mileage 14,817 Total mileage 77,866 Iron 23 Chrom 1 Lead 0 Copper 43 Tin 0 Alum 9 Silcon 18 TBN 2.43A Vis 18.50 Nit 41 Oxid 29

1143 Normal 17-MAY-0630-MAY-06 Time on oil 10,628 miles on engine 60,699 Iron 24 chrom 1 Lead 0 copper 20 alum 8 silicon 17

Visc 12.45 Nit 23.0 Oxid 19.0 TBN 3.23
 
I can't read Oxi and Nitr ..but other then visc (if I'm reading correctly in the in line method instead of the column method) ...just what's the beef and where's the wear??
 
Oil thickened to a 50 weight look for viscosity on the abnormal sample visc was 18.50/ The oxid was 41 and nit 29. The copper doubled to 43. The TBN ended just above 2. The 2006 Durango see's 50 to 60 K a year. This is why he wanted the 25K oil, but would have been happy with 15K if decent report findings.

Here is what Amsoil wrote back and I am forwarding them the lab reports.

Thank you for contacting AMSOIL with your concerns.

In response to your inquiry, if his nitration and oxidation levels are near abnormal this will bring the TBN down regardless of what or whose oil is being used. Increased levels of nitration and oxidation can be one or a combination of many problems but is not the fault of the oil. Some things that can cause these high levels are air entering the crankcase, engine hotspots, oil or fuel contamination, emission problems, or many other conditions.

Is he using any type of fuel or oil additives? What is the repot lab number? Has the oil been in the vehicle for over one year?

Thank you again for the opportunity to respond to your concerns. As always, please feel free to contact us again if we can be of further assistance.

Sincerely,
Ed Kellerman
AMSOIL Technical Advisor
 
Quote:

I can't read Oxi and Nitr ..but other then visc (if I'm reading correctly in the in line method instead of the column method) ...just what's the beef and where's the wear??

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No real wear Gary...Just oil additive depletion. I have the same question.."Where is the beef in synthetic oils anymore? They just don't make it past 15K anymore!
 
A-catagory and Normal conditions.

He has the Eao fullflow on it too. This is his family/personal Durango doing mostly highway miles. Does about 50K easy miles a year on this new Dodge.
 
Some engines are just tough on oil. It's not one size fits all. I don't think we can be so general, and besides there aren't tons of examples of synthetic doing 25K in the past. Plus - how do we know all is perfect with your example engine? Lots of information is not transparent here.
 
If he wants quick maybe 10k changes with filter change
every other OCI? Being a truck it should take a grand total
of about 5min to drain/fill the oil unless its lowered or something. Shouldnt even need ramps or anything.
 
about the only tune up you can do on a 4.7 is plugs and air filter. they have no plug wires or distribitor. copper plugs in the engine are good for 30k miles.might want to change the PCV on it too. its located on the oil filler neck.

he must stay on the road constantly to do 50k miles a year.I have 48k miles on my 4.7 and its a 03 dakota. I have seen a few years back looking at trucks. saw a chevy truck 9 months old and had 100,000 miles.
 
Change the oil every 10K and don't worry about all that other stuff. Engine will stay cleaner & parts wear longer. Unless he's keeping it beyond 350K, a 50-50 blend of name brand synthetic and dino is all he needs.
 
Quote:

If he wants quick maybe 10k changes with filter change
every other OCI? Being a truck it should take a grand total
of about 5min to drain/fill the oil unless its lowered or something. Shouldnt even need ramps or anything.

Click to expand...


I second that. I'd use an oil extractor, no mess no fuss.
 
Amsoil just came back with a 2nd notice that sodium was high and was contaminating the oil. The copper was high to. Wondering if it was injested dirt when the air filter was changed?
 
Quote:

Redline say's 12K....is Amsoil going to need to follow suit?

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The last bottles of 20W-50 Redline I bought about a month ago still state 18,000 miles. Amsoil still shows 25K/35K for their premium oils but the ASL I just did a UOA on had thickened up a bit and had a low TBN (a little over 2) at about 8,200 miles (with an EaO oil filter). I had put 4 oz of VSOT half-way through the interval and there were some slight traces of (likely) coolant and silicon from a previous gasket repair so I can't 100% condemn the oil...yet. I have switched from ASL in that vehicle but I am now using the series 2K 0W-30 in another vehicle and will be doing a UOA after every OCI (no VSOT). I may switch back to ASL at some point but I thought it would have more TBN and would stay in grade better after only 8K, even with the slight trace of coolant and silicon. I have not been impressed with many of the extended OCI UOAs w/Redline and doubt that most vehicles could get 18K on it, even 12K is probably pushing it. I don't use it for extended OCIs, I was hoping that Amsoil would fill that need but I will be doing UOAs (trust but verify).
 
My Durango is an 03, 4.7 and I have 84,000+ miles on her now. Man, I thought I drove alot! I do my OCI's every 5000 miles. Plugs every 30K, Air filter the same. I use PP or Supertech syn. Since he does alot of driving I would say use one of my 2 oils above and change it out at 10K. I am going to post my 10K oil analysis after I hit the 10K. That will probably be in the spring.
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