Synthetic Fluid for Toyota Matrix XR Auto Tranny

[mkosem]

I dunno about a bypass filter but do you really think it would be necessary to change the fluid so often with a cooler and running synthetic fluid? I've never owned a car with an auto before, so this is really sounding like a PITA here. Toyota seems to think under normal conditions that the fluid should last 100k miles, this is a long shot from their severe service 15k change recommendation.

--Matt

 

[crossbow]

Here's a thread I started on transmission coolers.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=24;t=000617

I'm looking to get one as well. Hope some of the info helps you.

 

[Ray H]

Best of luck with your decision to ignore Toyota's T-IV ATF requirement, mkosem. I'm not that brave, but I genuinely admire people who are - and I look forward to future posts from you on how your decision works out. If nothing else, your experience will either vindicate Amsoil's claims or serve as a painless learning experience for the rest of us who's cars' manufacturers set their powertrain engineers and contracted lube chemists to the considerable task and expense to test and develop the proprietary AT fluids that meet their automatic transmissions' specific engineering requirements for smooth, efficient operation and maximum life rather than rely on a "one-size-fits-all" brew that claims to meet or exceed AT manufacturer lube specs that were never published.

 

[mkosem]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ray H:
Best of luck with your decision to ignore Toyota's T-IV ATF requirement, mkosem. I'm not that brave, but I genuinely admire people who are - and I look forward to future posts from you on how your decision works out. If nothing else, your experience will either vindicate Amsoil's claims or serve as a painless learning experience for the rest of us who's cars' manufacturers set their powertrain engineers and contracted lube chemists to the considerable task and expense to test and develop the proprietary AT fluids that meet their automatic transmissions' specific engineering requirements for smooth, efficient operation and maximum life rather than rely on a "one-size-fits-all" brew that claims to meet or exceed AT manufacturer lube specs that were never published.

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The amsoil page states that it is a suitible replacement for T-IV. I'm sticking to that. There's other people on matrixowners.com running amsoil in their autos with no problems at all.

--Matt

 

[Spector]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ray H:
who's cars' manufacturers set their powertrain engineers and contracted lube chemists to the considerable task and expense to test and develop the proprietary AT fluids that meet their automatic transmissions' specific engineering requirements for smooth, efficient operation and maximum life rather than rely on a "one-size-fits-all" brew that claims to meet or exceed AT manufacturer lube specs that were never published.

---

Exactly why I will never purchase a Toyota or Honda again. Proprietary fluids!!! On my last coolant change the dealer put in the GREAT Toyota Red Long Life Coolant. (been on the green ethelene glycol since birth but dealer choose to ignore that)Now I have a leak, cannot tell if it is the PS fluid or the coolant, both look exactly the same. GO Toyota!!!!!!!!!!

 

[mkosem]

Ok, I decided that I'm just gonna do a drain/refill at each oil change. 3.3qt of fluid every 5-7.5k miles is not terribly bad. Now the question is, is there any difference between the Lexus T-IV and the Toyota T-IV. This transmission is allegedly shared with the auto IS300.

--Matt

 

[Ray H]

quote:

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Originally posted by Spector:
...Exactly why I will never purchase a Toyota or Honda again. Proprietary fluids!!!...

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Okaaayyyyy... Tell me which manufacturer doesn't specify a proprietary fluid these days.

quote:

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Originally posted by mkosem:
...Now the question is, is there any difference between the Lexus T-IV and the Toyota T-IV. This transmission is allegedly shared with the auto IS300.

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I believe you answered your own question. As long as the fluid's specified in print as an actual "T-IV" spec product, it's acceptable for use in any Toyota-made product requiring a T-IV fluid. While some limited distribution ATFs may claim to be T-IV "compatible", they're not licensed by Toyota as meeting Toyota's T-IV specifications. Only Toyota really has the formula recipe. I have a suspicion that Toyota's ATF underwent far more testing during its development than the fake fluids from a low market-share company did. If the company blending an alternate "compatible" ATF folds due to litigation over a substandard fluid, how does that help car owners who's transmissions tanked on the stuff? Not likely a shared class action settlement would cover everyone's broken trannie exchange.

 

[highmiler]

Ray H:

I believe the Toyota T-IV fluid is just a cash grab by Toyota. They want you to buy their fluid exclusively because they make money on it.
Amsoil is an excellent fluid to be used in the same applications. I have 80k miles of severe use on my Toyota Echo's transmission and it shifts just like new with Amsoil synthetic ATF.

 

[highmiler]

mkosem:

My 2001 Echo also requires T-IV fluid.
Amsoil's "Universal ATF" is 100% compatible and it costs $ 5.90 per quart plus mailing cost if you are a preferred customer. The cost is even lower if you buy 12 quarts at a time = $ 5.6 per quart.
I do a drain and fill every 15k miles -requires exactly 3 quarts- and the transmission is working perfectly. I believe that the quality of the fluid is much better and the higher cost factor is negligible if you do the changes yourself.

 

[mkosem]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ray H:

quote:

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Originally posted by mkosem:
...Now the question is, is there any difference between the Lexus T-IV and the Toyota T-IV. This transmission is allegedly shared with the auto IS300.

---

I believe you answered your own question. As long as the fluid's specified in print as an actual "T-IV" spec product, it's acceptable for use in any Toyota-made product requiring a T-IV fluid. While some limited distribution ATFs may claim to be T-IV "compatible", they're not licensed by Toyota as meeting Toyota's T-IV specifications. Only Toyota really has the formula recipe. I have a suspicion that Toyota's ATF underwent far more testing during its development than the fake fluids from a low market-share company did. If the company blending an alternate "compatible" ATF folds due to litigation over a substandard fluid, how does that help car owners who's transmissions tanked on the stuff? Not likely a shared class action settlement would cover everyone's broken trannie exchange. [/QB]

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No, got my point wrong. I was curious if there was a quality difference between the lexus and toyota fluids. They are both T-IV. I know honda has different qualities of some fluids between Acura and Honda, MTF for instance.

--Matt

 

[Ray H]

Interesting. Would you share how you came by such information?

 

[Ray H]

quote:

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Originally posted by highmiler:
I believe the Toyota T-IV fluid is just a cash grab by Toyota. ... I have 80k miles of severe use on my Toyota Echo's transmission and it shifts just like new with Amsoil synthetic ATF.

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That's terrific! Anecdotal evidence makes for interesting reading, but I always play to the factory warranty. So, for anyone still under Toyota's powertrain warranty who uses a non-specified fluid and does have troubles, Toyota's not likely to pickup the tab. I have a 10 yr./100,000 mile warranty on my Sonata's powertrain. I'd be a fool to mess with anything other than the Mitsubishi SP-III spec ATF that Hyundai specifies. Some folks are lucky. I envy them, but I'm not one of 'em. I've learned by bitter experience that I have no choice but to rely on my reading comprehension of the published warranty provisions and maintenance/materials recommendations for my cars. As Danny Thomas once quipped, "I'd rather be a live chicken than a dead duck."

 

[mkosem]

Ya, I was thinking that since I have a 100k miles powertrain warranty that I should stick with factory recommended fluids. But is a drain and refill every 5k as good as/better than a full flush every 15k? Will the contaminants find their way out as well? Because the cost of 3qt of fluid every 5k is waaay cheaper than a $100 flush every 15k.

--Matt

 

[mechman600]

The Toyota Matrix already has a trans cooler from the factory. You can see two oil lines going from the trans to the radiator. Maybe not as good as a dedicated one, but it's still very good.

 

[meep]

Originally Posted By: Ray H

quote:

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Originally posted by highmiler:
I believe the Toyota T-IV fluid is just a cash grab by Toyota. ... I have 80k miles of severe use on my Toyota Echo's transmission and it shifts just like new with Amsoil synthetic ATF.

---

That's terrific! Anecdotal evidence makes for interesting reading, but I always play to the factory warranty. So, for anyone still under Toyota's powertrain warranty who uses a non-specified fluid and does have troubles, Toyota's not likely to pickup the tab. I have a 10 yr./100,000 mile warranty on my Sonata's powertrain. I'd be a fool to mess with anything other than the Mitsubishi SP-III spec ATF that Hyundai specifies. Some folks are lucky. I envy them, but I'm not one of 'em. I've learned by bitter experience that I have no choice but to rely on my reading comprehension of the published warranty provisions and maintenance/materials recommendations for my cars. As Danny Thomas once quipped, "I'd rather be a live chicken than a dead duck."


If we all stick to exactly what the manufacturer claims, the age of learning, experimenting, hot-rodding, and learning, is gone. Let's help the OP out--- not condemn.

 

[meep]

Some general thoughts---

We are debating whether a fluid type will kill a transmission. We are ignoring that he's claims he's an aggressive driver and he's about to put forced induction on an engine that has otherwise not been modified. If he truly runs this car hard, tracks it, whatever, this will be far greater of a strain than a T-IV vs amsoil decision.

Matt--- make sure you know what the stock fluid is---- Toyota moved to a "WS" fluid at some point a few years back that is thinner. This also means that the proper amsoil ATF is not the universal, but the low viscosity offering.

T-IV stock is said to go 100k. driven nicely that's probably ok. I'd change it at 60k, as it is not known to be a synthetic fluid. if run hard with a hopped motor, I'd probably go something like 30k intervals or less if you are tracking it. I'd use a temp gauge to help determine if the fluid is getting worked that hard for real.

Amsoil is a syn. I'd trust it to longer intervals.

Temp gauge is needed.

aux cooler, plumbed before the factory cooler, also needed. Too cold is not good either, btw.

inline filter, magnefine, etc., is a good idea but not required.

No Fluid will magically prevent extra wear if the powerplant is boosted and run hard.

Me personally, I'd be comfortable to run either T-IV or amsoil and add a gauge. then see how it goes. if it runs hot, I'd add a cooler. I personally like amsoil's ATF fluids and run it in all of my vehicles. Per my own butt, honda's shift more consistently with it. My chryco vehicles have driven the same as they have with ATF+4. The tundra runs far better on it than the BG Universal synthetic (wrong viscosity!) that the dealer themselves flushed into it for the previous owner.

I do hope-- if the OP is paying attention, that you pay attention to other safety systems. If you drive it hard, consider brake and suspension upgrades? And if you really feel the need to drive hard, can you put it on a track and keep the hoonage to protected areas away from normal roads?

A boosted matrix with a few mods would be one he77 of a autoX or rallyX vehicle!