SwiftVets Commercial

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motorguy222

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The following has a link to the whole article along with some excerpts from said article.

The Associated Press

Updated:1:51p.m.ET Aug.5,2004

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5612836/

WASHINGTON - Republican Sen. John McCain, a former prisoner of war in Vietnam, called an ad criticizing John Kerry’s military service “dishonest and dishonorable” and urged the White House on Thursday to condemn it as well.

The White House declined.

The 60-second ad features Vietnam veterans who accuse the Democratic presidential nominee of lying about his decorated Vietnam War record and betraying his fellow veterans by later opposing the conflict.

Retired Adm. Roy Hoffmann, head of the Swift Boat group, said they respected McCain’s “right to express his opinion and we hope he extends to us the same respect and courtesy, particularly since we served with John Kerry, we knew him well and Sen. McCain did not.”

In my opinion,McCian is a Republican in name only.His voting record is more to the Democratic side.
While the commercial could possibly bring up old wounds for some that were in Vietnam,I think it is very necessary since Kerry is making himself out to be a great war hero.
McCian should see this point as well.
I personally would be very upset with Kerry if I was a Vietnam vet and had been a POW like McCain.
It is deplorable of Kerry to use his 4 months of combat in Vietnam as a way of claiming heroism, only to come back to the states and accuse his fellow servicemen of being war criminals.

The swiftvets are only bringing out the side that Kerry is leaving out,the 'truth' and I think that they need to carry on.
patriot.gif
 
quote:
Originally posted by XS650:
Some of the smear is starting to unravel.
Click to expand...
The link above proves very little if anything regarding Kerry's service record.The majority of those that knew Kerry in Vietnam are against him.His overall record by all accounts of those that knew him during combat is negative.
He speaks of his own great war record in his campaign,yet he accused his fellow servicemen of terrible atrocities when he came back from '4 months' of combat in Vietnam.
What is making Kerry so hypocritical is the fact that,he is now calling on those that he called 'war criminals',to get him elected as president.
Kerry came back from combat,charged those that he served with as doing great and terrible atrocities in Vietnam and now,he,Kerry,is a great hero and is seeking those that are according to his own words,war criminals,to get him elected.
How two faced and arrogant can a person be.
He calls people war criminals and then turns around and asks for their support? This in my opinion and insult and a slap in the face to all Vietnam vets.
 
XS650 the author that wrote that article LIED.
In fact the author is a Boston Globe staff writer that is riding along in the Bus with the Kerry campaign. He is also being paid to write a book on Kerry/Edwards at this time by the Kerry, Edwards Campaign. There is no Bias in the liberal media is there?

Now this is the rebuttle by this Viet Nam Vet.

ANTI-KERRY VETS HANG TOUGH
Fri Aug 06 2004 13:37:12 ET

The following statement from Swift Boat Veterans for Truth concerns an article appearing in morning edition of the Boston Globe:

"Viet Vet Captain George Elliott describes an article appearing in today’s edition of the Boston Globe by Mike Kranish as extremely inaccurate and highly misstating his actual views. He reaffirms his statement in the current advertisement paid for by the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, Captain Elliott reaffirms his affidavit in support of that advertisement, and he reaffirms his request that he ad be played.

“Additional documentation will follow.

The article by Mr. Kranish is particularly surprising given page 102 of Mr. Kranish’s own book quoting John Kerry as acknowledging that he killed a single, wounded, fleeing Viet Cong soldier whom he was afraid would turn around.

“Swift Boat Veterans for Truth has more than 250 supporters who are revealing first hand, eyewitness accounts of numerous incidents concerning John Kerry’s military service record. The organization will continue to discuss much of what John Kerry has reported as fact concerning his four-month tour of duty in Vietnam.”

“Swift Boat Veterans for Truth has more than 250 supporters who are revealing first hand, eyewitness accounts of numerous incidents concerning John Kerry’s military service record. The organization will continue to discuss much of what John Kerry has reported as fact concerning his four-month tour of duty in Vietnam.”

END
 
The GOP has pretty much assimilated NRA tactics as they've seen how effective that they can be. A common one is posting what are pretty much bald faced lies, and if needed quietly recanting the accusations later. It reinforces the views of the 'ture believers' and at least places doubt among others, with little overall risk to one's candidate/issue as the true believers want to and will believe just about anything said about the 'enemy'.
 
quote:
Originally posted by 1sttruck:
The GOP has pretty much assimilated NRA tactics as they've seen how effective that they can be. A common one is posting what are pretty much bald faced lies, and if needed quietly recanting the accusations later. It reinforces the views of the 'ture believers' and at least places doubt among others, with little overall risk to one's candidate/issue as the true believers want to and will believe just about anything said about the 'enemy'.
Click to expand...
Karl Rove is a freaking genius. He destroyed McCain in the 2000 primary in South Carolina by having surrogates calling him a "Niger lover" and a "Manchurian candidate" with mental instability.

Go Rove! Go! Make George our emperor. He deserves it! He needs a Latin title too... Georgio Walkerius Bushus Maximus.
grin.gif
 
quote:
The GOP has pretty much assimilated NRA tactics as they've seen how effective that they can be.
Click to expand...
Yeah, nothing like the gun banners and their attempts to "fudge" the issues so Americans think "assault weapons" (a made up term - not used in the military) are actually full auto. That's honesty because it's all for the children. They are stuck because the ban has been shown to be worthless. All the pre-ban rifles are still out there, tens of thousands more have been built that comply with the ban but shoot semi auto just as the banned ones. I love it when they say crime has gone down because of the ban. The pre-ban rifles are still out there! Are they hoping people think guns just evaporate after a couple years? They try to gloss over that issue and hope you won't notice - kind of like Kerry and what he ACTUALLY did in Vietnam. I am glad the gun banners are being ground into the mud. I will forever vote against any gun banning "reasonable" or not because these people are my enemies and have been shown they cannot be bargained with. If .5% (one half percent) of guns were used in shootings the US would have about 1 MILLION shootings per year!!

After the stunt the Dems pulled at the last minute with the "Bush DWI" I hope they enjoy their own medicine. Bon appetit!
 
"Keating 5" McCain - Feingold has driven a lot of the campaign dollars to fringe groups (George Soros, MoveOn, etc.). One guy in Texas sponsored the Swift ads.

Bush is as responsible for this as Kerry is for Fahrenheit 9/11. That is, not at all.

Besides, "shoot the messenger" is EXACTLY what is trying to be accomplished. Guess what, the truth will shine and the lies will be revealed.

If the "mainstream" media were as curious about JFKerry as they were about certain reckless AWOL allegations, these veterans wouldn't need to buy time to get their message out. Dan Rather would be chasing them down for interviews and demanding an investigation. (did he lie, did he kill innocents, did he burn down a village, were his wounds self inflicted, why did he leave after only 4 months - the shortest Swift boat command in the whole war, why did he say he threw away his medals, then say he threw away someone elses medals, then say he threw away his ribbons, and yadadada...). As the liberals like to say, the seriousness of the charges demands an investigation.

I enjoy the irony of it all. JFKerry is running for President largely on what he did for 4 months more than 30 years ago. If he was running on some recent accomplishments, say, anything in the last 30 years, this wouldn't be so much of a hot issue.

Keith.

[ August 06, 2004, 07:45 PM: Message edited by: keith ]
 
Anti-Kerry Swift Boat vet and former Kerry former supervisor, George Elliott, recants his recant...

quote:
By Svea Herbst-Bayliss
BOSTON (Reuters) - One of presidential candidate John Kerry's Vietnam war comrades, who had appeared to back off his criticism of Kerry's war record, recanted on Friday and said, yes, in fact he did question whether the U.S. senator deserved his medals.

Last week at his nominating convention, Kerry painted himself as a decorated war hero capable of leading the nation in troubled times and a man better qualified to be commander-in-chief than President Bush.

That portrayal of his time as commander of a Navy Swift Boat sparked a heated exchange this week between those who support him and those who question that image.

This week a group calling itself the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth launched a television spot accusing the Democratic candidate of betraying his country by speaking out against the war when he returned home.

On Friday, a member of that group who was one of Kerry's supervisors in Vietnam, George Elliott, appeared to back off an earlier affidavit in which he suggested Kerry did not deserve the Silver Star. In the affidavit, he said, "I was never informed that he had simply shot a wounded, fleeing Viet Cong in the back."

In Friday's Boston Globe, Elliott was quoted as saying: "It was a terrible mistake probably for me to sign the affidavit with those words. I'm the one in trouble here."

Elliott told the Globe Kerry did deserve the medal.

PLAYING GOLF

Inundated with calls to verify the statement, Elliott grew media shy and said through his wife he would not talk. Earlier in the day, Mrs. Elliott said her husband was playing golf and would call back when he returned in the afternoon.

Elliott later issued another affidavit -- witnessed and notarized -- this time saying he was misquoted by the Globe and reaffirming his belief that Kerry has "not been honest about what happened in Vietnam."

Elliott also wrote: "Had I known the facts, I would not have recommended Kerry for the Silver Star for simply pursuing and dispatching a single wounded, fleeing Viet Cong."

Martin Baron, editor of The Boston Globe, said in a statement: "Regarding George Elliott's statements on John Kerry's military service, which ran in the Globe this morning, the Globe stands by the article. The quotes attributed to Mr. Elliott were on the record and absolutely accurate."

Next week the group will step up its campaign against the candidate with a book, "Unfit for Command: Swift Boat Veterans Speak Out Against John Kerry."

Veterans supporting Kerry called the ad a "smear campaign" and two whose lives were saved by Kerry hit back.

"What these people have said is not true and a lot of it is grossly inaccurate," said James Rassmann, who has appeared at many campaign appearances with the candidate.

"These gentlemen appear to be making this up as they go along and they are not keeping their stories straight," he said.

Fred Short, who also served with Kerry, said the ad shows "The Bush campaign has nothing to talk about, so they resort to these dirty tricks."

Meanwhile Republican Sen. John McCain, another Vietnam veteran, called the attack dishonorable and dishonest.

The Bush administration distanced itself from the advertisement on Thursday but did not condemn it. "We have not and we will not question Sen. Kerry's service in Vietnam," said White House spokesman Scott McClellan.
Click to expand...
Source: http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle....0CRBAE0CFEY?type=politicsNews&storyID=5901447
 
quote:
Originally posted by motorguy222:
In my opinion,McCian is a Republican in name only. His voting record is more to the Democratic side.
Click to expand...
Yep... W's surrogate called him the Manchurian Candidate and other racial slurs during the 2000 primary race. Maybe you're right; McCain is a Dem lackey. That's why W has chosen him to speak in the RNC convention.
grin.gif
 
http://www.swiftvets.com/

quote:
John Edwards: "If you have any question about what John Kerry is made of, just spend 3 minutes with the men who served with him."

Al French: "I served with John Kerry."

Bob Elder: "I served with John Kerry."

George Elliott: "John Kerry has not been honest about what happened in Vietnam."

Al French: "He is lying about his record."

Louis Letson: "I know John Kerry is lying about his first Purple Heart because I treated him for that injury."

Van O'Dell: "John Kerry lied to get his bronze star ... I know, I was there, I saw what happened."

Jack Chenoweth: "His account of what happened and what actually happened are the difference between night and day."

Admiral Hoffman: "John Kerry has not been honest."

Adrian Lonsdale: "And he lacks the capacity to lead."

Larry Thurlow: "When the chips were down, you could not count on John Kerry."

Bob Elder: "John Kerry is no war hero."

Grant Hibbard: "He betrayed all his shipmates ... he lied before the Senate."

Shelton White: "John Kerry betrayed the men and women he served with in Vietnam."

Joe Ponder: "He dishonored his country ... he most certainly did."

Bob Hildreth: "I served with John Kerry ...

Bob Hildreth (off-camera): John Kerry cannot be trusted."

Announcer: "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth is responsible for the content of this advertisement."

Click to expand...
 
From what information that I have,either the Democratic party or Kerry's campaign have asked Bush to stop running the swiftvets commercial.Bush reponded by saying that it was not his and that he had nothing to do with it.
I belive that Kerry is afraid that the truth will come out regarding him being a ' Traitor ' and not a hero as he claims.
 
quote:
I don't agree with what Kerry did and think it was wrong how far he took it but we better focus on the future rather then the past.
Click to expand...
Well it seems that it was Kerry who chose to make Vietnam the central theme of his campaign. He is definitely not focusing on the future, unless it involves going back to fight in Vietnam. Being president has very little to do with being able to run a Swift boat. But since he wants to be judged on Vietnam he is just going to have to lump the scrutiny. Otherwise he should have kept his smarmy mouth shut.
 
rgl said "..Yeah, nothing like the gun banners and their attempts to "fudge" the issues so Americans think "assault weapons" (a made up term - not used in the military) are actually full auto...."

???????? See below

*******************
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/087341778X/002-9785855-2959209?v=glance

The Gun Digest Book of Assault Weapons

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STG_44

Production Name - Assault Rifle, Model 1944

http://www.okinawa.usmc.mil/Operations/CROC03/031015-recon.html

Marines from Bravo Company, 3D Reconnaissance Battalion, 3D Marine Expeditionary Brigade, patrol through the brush with the M-4 A3 assault rifle during a live fire exercise on range 2...
*******************

A difference which is being ignored, for I guess obvious reasons, is that the assault weapon hysteria is based on a lot of ignorance, while you seem to be justifying outright lies. Most people don't understand the specifics, distinctions, etc., as all that they're reacting to are the shootings where the weapons are described in the 'Gun Digest Book of Assault Weapons'. Most of the NRA types gripe that assualt weapons only refer to full auto weapons, which is also not true and is probably a moot point anyway, as in the Marines we were trained to use aimed, semi-auto fire with our M16A1s, the full auto selectable version. Ignorance can be cured, but integrity lost while promoting known lies can never be recovered.
 
What I find funny about this ad being run by the republicans, is the fact that their incumbent, Bush used his dads influence to get out of serving in Viet Nam. He was also too lazy to stick with it and bailed early. Why vets would support a man like Bush is beyond me. Bush is getting soldiers killed because of his administrations lies...he the enemy of vets and not their leader.
 
Who cares about this garbage? Bush is no better. McCain slammed this add I think. It's time to forget these stupid character flaws and focus on the policies and plans of each canidate. Their are serious issues out their that we need to focus on. I'm not too concerned about what happend 30yrs ago with these two.
rolleyes.gif


These guys are most likely ****** off bc of Kerry's outspoken comments when comming home from Vietnam. It was a stupid war. I don't agree with what Kerry did and think it was wrong how far he took it but we better focus on the future rather then the past.

[ August 07, 2004, 12:54 PM: Message edited by: buster ]
 
From a local paper, the 'Oregonian':

GOP fires another shot at Kerry's boat
Sunday, August 08, 2004
DAVID SARASOHN

Jim Rassmann has been a Green Beret in Vietnam, a 20-year detective for the Los Angeles County Sheriff, and now an Oregon retiree campaigning with John Kerry, whom he credits with saving his life under fire on the Mekong River.

He keeps getting new experiences.

"Coming back from the convention," Rassmann marvels, "for the first time in my life I've been called a traitor to my country."

Rassmann is a collateral casualty in last week's assault on Kerry's Vietnam record by Swift boat veterans who never served on his boat, but insisted that Kerry's, and the Navy's, account of his Vietnam service is a lie. The group is led by a veteran who has attacked Kerry since being chosen by the Nixon administration to do so, is financed by a major Houston Republican contributor, and uses a public relations consultant who previously worked on a similar campaign against Sen. John McCain -- oddly, when McCain was running against George W. Bush in the 2000 South Carolina primary.

"It was the same kind of deal that was pulled on me," McCain told The Associated Press, calling the ad "dishonest and dishonorable."

Republicans have managed to create a Kerry-McCain ticket after all.

On the subject of White House involvement, McCain said, "I hope not, but I don't know. But I think the White House should specifically condemn the ad." McCain, of course, has been around this course before.

Jim Rassmann hasn't.

"I'm very grateful to John McCain for stepping in and responding as he did," Rassmann said from his home in Florence. "I'd been warned repeatedly that this was probably going to be one of the dirtiest campaigns in history."

On Thursday Rassmann, who reconnected with Kerry at the start of this campaign year, responded to the charges on CNN, MSNBC, CNBC and on Fox News twice. Friday, he was back on the radio and scheduled to reappear on CNN.

On CNN's "Inside Politics," Rassmann appeared opposite Larry Thurlow, who was on a different Swift boat on the mission where Kerry won a Bronze Star for pulling Rassmann out of the river under enemy fire. Thurlow said he now remembered the trip as a peaceful roll down the river.

On TV, Rassmann -- who filed the request that Kerry be decorated -- flushed and called Thurlow's version "disingenuous." The next day, he was blunter. "These guys say there was no fire. That's nonsense," he said. "I really did believe I was going to die.

"I'm very grateful to all the guys, especially John Kerry, for dragging me out of the water."

All the other people who served on Kerry's boat remember it the same way, and have since 1969. And if Kerry didn't save Rassmann's life, Rassmann's going to an awful lot of trouble for him; appearing twice on Fox News in one day probably qualifies for a decoration by itself.

It's odd, though, that Kerry should face the same kind of charges about lying about his service, and from some of the same people who were launched against McCain, the last Vietnam War hero to run against George W. Bush.

Coincidence is an amazing thing.

Spokesman John O'Neill, who's been attacking Kerry since 1971, was quoted on a right-wing Web site as saying the real point wasn't the story of Kerry's medals but his opposition to the war when he returned home, when he "grossly and knowingly distorted the conduct of the American soldiers, Marines, sailors and airmen of that war" by saying American troops had committed war crimes.

On the other hand, Gen. Tommy Franks recently said about Kerry's 1971 comments, "He was a young officer over there, and I'm not sure that -- that activities like that didn't take place. In fact, quite the contrary. I'm sure that they did take place."

Vietnam, it seems, was a complicated place, even if your group is getting financed by a Houston GOP moneyman and connected to Republican PR consultants. "I think a lot of people out there," Jim Rassmann says, "have a serious problem, after all these years, with Vietnam and its history."

But one thing about Vietnam that Rassmann seems pretty sure about is that Kerry saved his life there and deserves the medal he got for doing it.

He's sure about the war part.

And he's pretty sure John McCain has figured out the political part.
 
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