More From Kerry's Fantasy World

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The following is one more story from Kerry's fantasy world.

This man will evidently say and or do anything to obtain the goals that he has set before himself.
As the link states,it is a conservative site.Our Liberal news will not state the facts about Kerry,he is after all,their 'Poster Boy'.

http://www.rightwingnews.com/


On Cambodia

If there is a consistent[1] repeated story by John Kerry about his Vietnam experience, it is his story about how he and his boat spent Christmas Eve and Christmas of 1968 illegally present in Cambodia and, listening to President Nixon's contrary assurances, developed "a deep mistrust of U.S. government pronouncements." See Exhibit 24, Kranish book, p. 84. The point of his story was that his government and his commanders were lying about Kerry's presence in Cambodia on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day. During a critical debate on the floor of the United States Senate on March 27, 1986, Senator John Kerry said:

Mr. President, I remember Christmas of 1968 sitting on a gunboat in Cambodia. I remember what it was like to be shot at by Vietnamese and Khmer Rouge and Cambodians, and have the President of the United States telling the American people that I was not there; the troops were not in Cambodia.

I have that memory which is seared -- seared -- in me . . . .

Exhibit 25, Congressional Record - Senate of March 27, 1986, page 3594.

By way of further example, Kerry wrote an article for the Boston Herald on October 14, 1979:

"I remember spending Christmas Eve of 1968 five miles across the Cambodian border being shot at by our South Vietnamese allies who were drunk and celebrating Christmas. The absurdity of almost killed by our own allies in a country in which President Nixon claimed there were no American troops was very real."

...The story is a total preposterous fabrication by Kerry. Exhibit 8 is an affidavit by the Commander of the Swift boats in Vietnam, Admiral Roy Hoffmann, stating that Kerry's claim to be in Cambodia for Christmas Eve and Christmas of 1968 is a total lie. If necessary, similar affidavits are available from the entire chain of command. In reality, Kerry was at Sa Dec -- easily locatable on any map more than fifty miles from Cambodia. Kerry himself inadvertently admits that he was in Sa Dec for Christmas Eve and Christmas and not in Cambodia, as he had stated for so many years on the Senate Floor, in the newspapers, and elsewhere. Exhibit 27, Tour, pp. 213-219. Sa Dec is hardly "close" to the Cambodian border. In reality, far from being ordered secretly to Cambodia, Kerry spent a pleasant night at Sa Dec with "visions of sugar plums" dancing in his head. Exhibit 27, p. 219. At Sa Dec where the Swift boat patrol area ended, there were many miles of other boats (PBR's) leading to the Cambodian border. There were also gunboats on the border to prevent any crossing. If Kerry tried to get through, he would have been arrested. Obviously, Kerry has hardly been honest about his service in Vietnam.

Folks, these are men who treated Kerry for wounds, fought beside him in other boats, & that were in his line of command. They're also veterans who went to Vietnam and risked their lives, just like John Kerry.

Furthermore, their accounts sound VERY credible and it's quite easy to understand why they came forward.

Imagine how you'd feel if you served with a guy in a combat situation and you didn't really think much of him.

Then, a few months later, he turns up stateside, waving around a bunch of medals you don't think he earned, and telling the entire world that people like YOU are war criminals.

Then, fast forward to 2004 and here's this same guy running as a combination of Sgt. York, Patton, & John Paul Jones. Put another way, as Captain George Elliott, USN (retired) from Swift Boat Veterans for Truth said...

"In 1971, '72, for almost 18 months, (John Kerry) stood before the television audiences and claimed that the 500,000 men and women in Vietnam, and in combat, were all villains -- there were no heroes. In 2004, one hero from the Vietnam War has appeared, running for President of the United States and Commander-in-Chief. It just galls one to think about it."

If you were in their position, if you knew John Kerry was lying through his teeth and was using those lies as the basis of his presidential campaign, wouldn't you step forward and try to let people know the truth?

*** Update #1***: Remember that memory that was "seared" into John Kerry? According to Fox News reporter, Carl Cameron,The Swift Boat Vets for Truth have already caught Kerry in a lie. He just reported that the Kerry campaign is now saying John Kerry WAS NOT in Cambodia in 1968.

If John Kerry lied about being in Cambodia, what other parts of his military record is he lying about? I can't wait to see how this plays out...
 
As usual this statement full of nonsense. Saying there was a line of boats to enforce the Cambodian border just shows the ignorence of the geography in that area, the rivers there are a labyrinth of channels that vary vastly with tides. Considering a vast number of covert and illegal actions were carried out by the US in Cambodia, what moron would then compile accurate records of those actions. Besides, if you're gonna expect a man to remember everything he did every day almost 40 years ago, well, then tell me what the heck you were wearing 40 years ago...if you were even born back then.
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In the big scheme of things, not knowing where your boat was on one day is not that big of an issue and could be a simple lapse.

The Swiftboat vets sure have plenty of other more important allegations. Dan Rather will be all over it, sometime, won't he?

Keith.
 
quote:

Originally posted by mnztr:
As usual this statement full of nonsense. Saying there was a line of boats to enforce the Cambodian border just shows the ignorence of the geography in that area, the rivers there are a labyrinth of channels that vary vastly with tides. Considering a vast number of covert and illegal actions were carried out by the US in Cambodia, what moron would then compile accurate records of those actions. Besides, if you're gonna expect a man to remember everything he did every day almost 40 years ago, well, then tell me what the heck you were wearing 40 years ago...if you were even born back then.
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Well mnztr,your MORON Kerry seems to remember EVERYTHING he did in Vietnam,that is UNTIL he is faced with the real truth by someone that knows it.
Many of Kerry's memories about what happened in Vietnam seem to go this way.He 'remembers' how this or that happened,only to have to back track when he is faced with the truth.
Kerry,by his own statements,seems to have had the images of Vietnam seared into his mind.
This should have made him VERY aware of where he was and what he was doing on Christmas Eve and Day.
I would tend to think that most that were in Vietnam at Christmas and away from their families would remember where they were and what they were doing at the time,it would only be natural for them to do so.
After all,Kerry remembers all of the atrocities that the US soldiers 'did' while he was there,why should he not remember Christmas?
Maybe Kerry has amnesia,better yet,he has a selective memory.He selects the memories of others and then says they are his.

If we consider that Kerry was in Vietnam for 4 months and 'remembers' the alleged atrocities that the soldiers did,why can he not remember 2 days at Christmas and Christmas eve?
After all,he seems to remember the other 118 days that he was there so very well.
 
He also said today that he still would have gone into Iraq even if he knew what we know now which is that their are no WMD's. Kerry is a fraud. I'm discusted with both of them. I respect Howard Dean more then I do Kerry. He should have been the guy anyway. The media made such a big deal about him getting a little "passionate" during a rallly.
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Not to mention Dean was against the war from the beginning and still is. No change of position.
 
buster - I could be mistaken but I don't think W's question was hypothetical in the sense that if Kerry was president, would he still launch the war knowing what he knows now. My understanding is that W challenged Kerry on his Senate vote of approval to give the president power to launch war on Iraq, basically asking if Kerry would vote the same way if he had known all that he knows now. Kerry's response is that he would still "give the president" that power but still hold him responsible for exhausting all other means. Kerry's response is obvious. If he had said "no"; Karl Rove would have multiple orgasms. Both "yes" and "no" response opens up Kerry for criticism, but "no" is more deadly.

As for the Swiftboats vets, it will just have to play out. It's hard for me to believe them unless they introduce "official" Navy/military files to prove their accusations are truthful. My personal take is that they represent many vets who were p-off about Kerry's anti-war position and his descriptions of "war crimes". However, the swiftboat vets tend to leave out the fact that Kerry was bringing them up as an issue about the leadership in Washington during the war. Soldiers follow orders and that is what they did.

As someone from that part of the world, I can tell you that if indiscriminant carpet-bombing and dumping of Agent Orange aren't war crimes, I don't know what is. Part of Nixon's plan (Vietnamization) was to withdraw US but increase bombing of the north till they give up and negotiate. Take a tour of Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos and see for yourself. Just be careful when you're out in the country-side. Some of the ordinance of 3 decades ago didn't go off.

[ August 10, 2004, 07:22 PM: Message edited by: Bugzii ]
 
Who the "swift boat vetrans" are:
quote:

It's notable that Swift Boat Veterans for Truth was formed not by a Swift Boat Veteran but by Merrie Spaeth, a Republican PR hack from Houston whose late husband ran for the office of Lieutenant Governer in Texas with George W. Bush. Salon has the scoop on how the campaign was organized. Suffice it to say that the money behind Swift Boat Veterans for Truth is the same money behind the George H. W. Bush Presidential Library Foundation.

John McCain on the Swift Boat Vetrans:

"I deplore this kind of politics," McCain said. "I think the ad is dishonest and dishonorable. As it is, none of these individuals served on the boat (Kerry) commanded. Many of his crew have testified to his courage under fire. I think John Kerry served honorably in Vietnam. I think George Bush served honorably in the Texas Air National Guard during the Vietnam War."
 
quote:

Kerry,by his own statements,seems to have had the images of Vietnam seared into his mind.
This should have made him VERY aware of where he was and what he was doing on Christmas Eve and Day.
I would tend to think that most that were in Vietnam at Christmas and away from their families would remember where they were and what they were doing at the time,it would only be natural for them to do so.
After all,Kerry remembers all of the atrocities that the US soldiers 'did' while he was there,why should he not remember Christmas?

Events and images may be seared into ones mind, but the exact dates and times are often muddled. Either way, maybe it was Thanksgiving or some other holiday on which those events occured. If Kerry is a Moron, then that would make Bush some sort of single celled amoeba like creature.
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I don't rule out that Kerry may be trumpeting his service record for political effect and may even be embellishing a bit, but at least he FREAKIN SHOWED UP!!! All this nonsense is Republican noise to try and cloud the issue of Dubyas Vietnam dodging and his AWOL status. I guess some things never change, AWOL then and AWOL now.
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quote:

buster - I could be mistaken but I don't think W's question was hypothetical in the sense that if Kerry was president, would he still launch the war knowing what he knows now. My understanding is that W challenged Kerry on his Senate vote of approval to give the president power to launch war on Iraq, basically asking if Kerry would vote the same way if he had known all that he knows now. Kerry's response is that he would still "give the president" that power but still hold him responsible for exhausting all other means. Kerry's response is obvious. If he had said "no"; Karl Rove would have multiple orgasms. Both "yes" and "no" response opens up Kerry for criticism, but "no" is more deadly.


True, sorry I might have misread it.
pat.gif
 
quote:

Originally posted by mnztr:
All this nonsense is Republican noise to try and cloud the issue of Dubyas Vietnam dodging and his AWOL status. I guess some things never change, AWOL then and AWOL now.
rolleyes.gif


Fact - HONORABLY DISCHARGED.

And proof of your allegations is where?

Statistics 101 - "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

Even the New York Times debunked and dismissed this Boston Globe smear. I will grant you that it is difficult to prove someone is NOT somewhere, but you are making allegations and presumably those are based on - what?

Keith.
 
Links of a rusty chain are coming loose....

quote:

Anti-Kerry vets say 'lies' drove them to act

By Andrea Stone, USA TODAY

They call themselves Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, but they are no "band of brothers" to John Kerry.

Last week, the group launched a scathing 60-second TV ad accusing the Democratic nominee of lying about his Vietnam War record. This week, the group releases Unfit for Command: Swift Boat Veterans Speak Out Against John Kerry. On Sunday, the book was already No. 3 on Amazon.com's best-seller list.

The attack on one of Kerry's chief arguments for replacing President Bush as commander in chief — that he was tested under fire in Vietnam and served with distinction — has become harshly controversial. Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., a former prisoner of war in Vietnam who chairs Bush's campaign in Arizona, says the ad is dishonest and has called on the president's campaign to disavow it. Retired Army general Tommy Franks, who commanded U.S. forces in Afghanistan and Iraq, told ABC's This Week on Sunday that Kerry is "absolutely" qualified to be commander in chief.

Who are these men who say Kerry didn't deserve the medals he received as a swift boat commander, a view sharply at odds with that of men who served under him? And why are they telling their stories now, more than 35 years later?

On its Web site (www.swiftvets.com), the group calls itself "non-partisan." But public records show that two of its three main backers are longtime GOP contributors: Bob Perry, a Texas home builder who gave $100,000, and Harlan Crow, a Dallas real estate executive, who gave $25,000.

The third major backer is John O'Neill, who put up $25,000 and is co-author of the group's book. The Texas lawyer was closely tied to Bush when he was Texas governor. In 1971, O'Neill, a swift boat veteran who didn't serve with Kerry, was picked by the Nixon White House to counter Kerry's anti-war stand in TV debates.


The group's chairman and founder, retired rear admiral Roy Hoffmann, says the veterans were angered after reading historian Douglas Brinkley's book about Kerry's service, Tour of Duty: John Kerry and the Vietnam War. Hoffman says the biography is "replete with gross exaggerations, distortions of fact and outright lies."

As for waiting until a news conference this May to come forward, Hoffmann says, "When (Kerry) was in Massachusetts, that was Massachusetts' problem." Things changed, he says, "when he announced his candidacy to be the commander in chief."

Brinkley accuses the group of "a smear campaign." He interviewed at least seven of the men, some of whom he portrays harshly. Hoffmann, the Navy's top swift boat commander in Vietnam, is described in the book as "blood-thirsty" and "egomaniacal."

Like Hoffmann, none of the 13 men in the TV ad served on either of the two swift boats — small, lightly armed patrol craft — that Kerry commanded. Of the group's 254 members — out of 3,500 swift boat sailors who served in Vietnam — only one served under Kerry. The rest who did serve on Kerry's boats back his record.

Many of Kerry's critics commanded boats that went out on missions with Kerry. Others never met him. Most are still angry about Kerry's leadership of Vietnam Veterans Against the War after he returned home.

Among those criticizing Kerry:

• George Elliott, who came to Kerry's defense during his 1996 Senate campaign when questions were raised about his Silver Star. Kerry received the award after beaching his boat to chase a Viet Cong guerrilla who was firing from shore. Kerry jumped ashore and killed the guerrilla. As Kerry's commander, Elliott approved the award and gave him glowing marks in fitness reports. But in an affidavit last month, Elliott said he "was never informed that (Kerry) had simply shot a wounded, fleeing Viet Cong in the back." Last week, Elliott recanted that affidavit in a statement to The Boston Globe, saying he had made "a terrible mistake." But the Swift Boat Veterans group has since issued a statement reaffirming Elliott's affidavit.

Elliott was not available for comment Sunday, but in an interview with USA TODAY earlier this year, he said that while he strongly disagreed with Kerry's anti-war activities, "I don't know how anyone would have taken the risks he took in combat just for the glory of running for office."

• Adrian Lonsdale, who in 1996 called Kerry "among the finest of those swift boat drivers." He says he changed his mind after reading Brinkley's book. Lonsdale, who outranked Kerry, recalls meeting him only once at an officers club. "The only thing I remember is he whined a lot about the lack of air support," he said.

• Charles Plumly, a retired Navy captain who was Hoffmann's chief of staff. He says Kerry "required a lot of supervision" and "did things without permission." Asked in an interview for examples, he said, "I can't give you exact specifics."

• Van O'Dell and Jack Chenoweth, who are among those who say Kerry lied about an incident on March 13, 1969, for which he received a Bronze Star and a third Purple Heart. Kerry was cited for pulling Army Special Forces Lt. Jim Rassmann from a river during a firefight, despite an arm injury. O'Dell says there was no enemy fire and Kerry "fled the scene." Chenoweth says that Kerry's arm was not bleeding and that the official reports were "completely different than" what he saw.

Rassmann has dismissed such accounts as "pure fabrication." Del Sandusky, Kerry's boat driver, says, "I saw the gun flashes in the jungle, and I saw the bullets skipping across the water," adding that the contrary accounts are "part of the Republican slime machine."

• Louis Letson, a doctor who says he treated Kerry. He says Kerry didn't deserve his first Purple Heart because he "inadvertently wounded himself" and "there was no hostile fire." Medical records, however, note that Kerry was treated for shrapnel by J.C. Carreon, not Letson. Bill Zaladonis, who was on Kerry's boat at the time, says the men believed they were shooting at Viet Cong.


FactCheck.org, a non-partisan group that monitors political ads, says Letson's story is "based on hearsay, and disputed hearsay at that." It concludes, "There is reason to doubt" the Swift Boat Veterans' ad because of its funding and because of the discrepancies in memory between Kerry's defenders and attackers.

source: http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/president/2004-08-08-kerry-vets_x.htm
 
More info about Kerry:

http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnkerry.com/


The following is taken from:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1182203/posts

kerry, testimony before Congress, 22 April, 1971, kerry says, "I have been to Paris. I have talked with both delegations at the peace talks, that is to say the Democratic Republic of Vietnam and the Provisional Revolutionary Government,...."*(not on any authorised mission by the U.S. Government or by the U.S. military, kerry and his VVAW group meets and negotiates with the then enemy).

*excerpted from the Official U.S. Congressional Record dated 22 April, 1971.


"revamp the U.S. military", read as kerry's plan to PURGE the U.S. Military of Pro U.S. Military Veterans and Republicans, make it totally dependant on U.N. forces support for any significant achievement capable military(similar to france,germany, etc.), Turn home based U.S. Armed Forces, Intelligence agencies and Law Enforcement agencies into the democratic party's{including CPUSA and DSA} Praetorian Guard!!!!


kerry stabbed U.S. in the back continually since his return from Viet Nam. How much more backstabbing from this 22 April, 1971 testimony(self confessed traitor) before Congress that he(kerry) met with the then enemy in Paris, are we supposed to stand????
 
Mr. President, I remember Christmas of 1968 sitting on a gunboat in Cambodia. I remember what it was like to be shot at by Vietnamese and Khmer Rouge and Cambodians, and have the President of the United States telling the American people that I was not there; the troops were not in Cambodia. John Kerry


I recall LBJ's picture on the front page of the Stars and Stripes with the headline, LBJ SAYS THE US MILITARY IS NOT INVOLVED IN CAMBODIA, that gave us a good laugh, I was there in 67-68 and we were, but we were also involved in Tibet, and a few other places. So what!!! Our own grunts would take potshots at aircraft flying over head, more then once we came home with bullet holes caused by US weapons. As for the incusion into Cambodia I think we had every right to do it, the NVA would attack then run back across the border, we got tired of that BS.
 
quote:

So mntzr,does this mean that you forget the exact day that you were married on and where you got married at?
Does this mean that you forgot the birth(s) of your child(ren) and where they happened at?
Does this mean that you forgot your own graduation(s) and where it/they took place?
These are all important times in a persons life,they are not forgotten,even after 40 years.
Kerry 'seems' to remember everything else about Vietnam So Very Well ,yet he forgets where he was and what he was doing at Christmas.This does not ad up.

mntzr,if this was Bush saying what Kerry said,you would be on him like white on chalk.You KNOW this and so de WE

Well, sure I don't remember any of those things since they didn't happen. I do remember my graduations, but not the exact dates or times, and I'm sure the same is true for most people. Why might Kerry's memories of Christmas be unclear? Maybe because he was drunk or stoned just like most of the people there??!!! (I don't hold that against him one bit if it was true)
 
quote:

Fact - HONORABLY DISCHARGED.

And proof of your allegations is where?

Statistics 101 - "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

So you think someone having enough influence to get your kid into the "Texas Vietnam Avoidance Program for the Privilaged" would not have the influence to gurantee an honorable discharge? Besides, I'm not saying Bush did anything dishonorable, in fact I'm saying he did NOTHING. Considering all the controversy over this, why has there not been anyone able to provide documentation, no photos with his unit just one fuzzy photo of him next to a plane. So to make this clear - Bush - No band of bros.

Kerry - 1 genuine band of brothers and 1 fictitious band of brothers funded by the GOP slime machine. Believe me, if the Dems resorted to the slimy tactics like the "Swift Boat Vetrans" and a phone campaign against John McCain claiming he had a black child (during his leadership race against Bush) I would condemn them just as throughly. The GOP uses tactics that are not worthy of the slimiest third world banana republic.
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There is no debate that he served as a fighter pilot for 3 years. It's the "missing" year when he was not flying that is the cause of debate. Don't remember any "Veterans for the Truth" coming up over Bush's service, and if you don't believe the Dems would not have funded same if there were ANY grounds to do so, well, alrightythen.
 
mnztr said:"Considering a vast number of covert and illegal actions were carried out by the US in Cambodia, what moron would then compile accurate records of those actions".

mnztr,I called Kerry a moron because YOU have in essence called him the same thing in your statement above.
It seems that Kerry has ACCURATE records and memories of what happened in Vietnam,that is until they are refuted by someone else that was there and knows what really happened.
Kerry then comes up with the REAL TRUTH .

mntzr said:"Events and images may be seared into ones mind, but the exact dates and times are often muddled. Either way, maybe it was Thanksgiving or some other holiday on which those events occurred."

So mntzr,does this mean that you forget the exact day that you were married on and where you got married at?
Does this mean that you forgot the birth(s) of your child(ren) and where they happened at?
Does this mean that you forgot your own graduation(s) and where it/they took place?
These are all important times in a persons life,they are not forgotten,even after 40 years.
Kerry 'seems' to remember everything else about Vietnam So Very Well ,yet he forgets where he was and what he was doing at Christmas.This does not ad up.

mntzr,if this was Bush saying what Kerry said,you would be on him like white on chalk.You KNOW this and so de WE .

mnztr said:"All this nonsense is Republican noise to try and cloud the issue of Dubyas Vietnam dodging and his AWOL status."

mntzr,where are the links etc. showing that Bush was AWOL.He served in the National Guard,he was there,records prove such.
Where are your records proving otherwise?
 
quote:

Originally posted by mnztr:
snip....So you think someone having enough influence to get your kid into the "Texas Vietnam Avoidance Program for the Privilaged" snip....

Where is this nonsense about pull to get into the Guard coming from? I turned 18 in 1961, and my friends and slightly younger people faced the draft. A few of the the more desperate joined the Guard, but I don't recall anybody not being able to do so that wanted to. As I remember it, the Guard was always short of people and recruiting.

I say needing pull to get into the Guard is a liberal lie invented by the Democrats when Dan Quaile was selected as vice president.
 
I don't put a lot of weight on a politician's war record when considering their suitability for office. When they can't seem to tell the truth about the past it reflects unfavorably on their ability to be honest about current events.
I will not vote for Kerry regardless, however, at least he did not sink his own boat during the war as a direct result of negligence like another prominent politician of the past did (and then became a hero).
 
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