I think I've lost my faith in Supetech filters. I have been running st7317 in my 02 civic with no problems and dropping it out at about 5k. On the last run I noticed that the oil level had come up a little about 3500 miles into the OCI. well 500 miles later I changed out the oil because i finally got a chance to do it and very little oil came out of the filter. Now my engine has 65,000 miles and its pretty clean internally. filtration is good and I can think of no way that the filter should have clogged and bypassed. So I'm thinking that the bypass valve went south for some reason. Anyone else have a similar problem with these filters? Not that it matters but the oil was Pzoil 5w20 dino.
supertech bypass valve problem?
- Thread starter dustyjoe1
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Some have had problems with Champ made filters that have what is called a 'clicker' bypass valve.
I dont know if this application has one or not.
If it does,that may be your problem.
I dont know if this application has one or not.
If it does,that may be your problem.
The main reason to worry about little if any oil coming out of a filter is that it may be draining back into the pan.
Most filters have an Anti-Drainback Valve in them.
These valves are supposed to keep oil in the filter so that the engine will get oil to the moving parts quicker.
This is especially important on horizontal and vertical(mounted base down) filters.
If the oil drains out of the filter,the pump has to fill the filter before any oil gets to the engine.
If the ADV is working,the filter will already have oil in it and it will get to the engine quicker.
If the oil drains out of the filter,you have many more 'dry starts' on the engine which means that you are technically starting the engine without oil,just as you would after an oil and filter change.
This can lead to more engine wear over time.
Most filters have an Anti-Drainback Valve in them.
These valves are supposed to keep oil in the filter so that the engine will get oil to the moving parts quicker.
This is especially important on horizontal and vertical(mounted base down) filters.
If the oil drains out of the filter,the pump has to fill the filter before any oil gets to the engine.
If the ADV is working,the filter will already have oil in it and it will get to the engine quicker.
If the oil drains out of the filter,you have many more 'dry starts' on the engine which means that you are technically starting the engine without oil,just as you would after an oil and filter change.
This can lead to more engine wear over time.
What version of st7317 was it? "Old-style", clicker or Ecore?
427z06 it has a little spring in the center looking straight up when you peer down into the hole. not sure if that is clicker or what. I always get good amount of oil at the change. this is first time with little oil. the higher oil level makes me think the oil was in the pan and not in the filter where it should have stayed.
That is the old style. The e-core had a plastic cage on the inside and no visible spring.
blupupher called it correctly. FWIW, my experience has been you'll occasionally run across a bad anti-drain back valve with all brands. Haven't kept records but I would hazard a guess it's like 1 out of 20. All you can do is keep an eye out for oil pressure lag at startup.
I've had Anti-Drainback Valve issues with almost every SuperTech oil filter that I have used. I've used them on 5 different vehicles, each vehicle having it's own application. Experiencing alot of start up clatter not only on the first start up of the day but, if the vehicles have been sitting for a couple of hours as well. I don't notice start up clatter on my old carburated Pontiac that while starting the car, the engine turnes over for several seconds before catching/starting. But on my EFI cars/trucks that start as soon as I turn the key, the engines clatter upon start up. I've experienced start up clatter with just about every brand of oil filter from time to time including filters with silicone ADV but, only every blue moon. I'll sometimes go years and not hear a thing.
I have also cut open most of the SuperTech oil filters only to find warped/distorted ADV. Apparently the rubber that Champion Labs uses in the ST filters seem to be of poor quality.
On the positive side of these filters is that the canister seem to be very strong, though I haven't measured their thickness and, the filtration media looks absolutly supurb. Better looking than most of the other brands of filters that I have opened. The media only looks better, I don't know that it is better.
I have also cut open most of the SuperTech oil filters only to find warped/distorted ADV. Apparently the rubber that Champion Labs uses in the ST filters seem to be of poor quality.
On the positive side of these filters is that the canister seem to be very strong, though I haven't measured their thickness and, the filtration media looks absolutly supurb. Better looking than most of the other brands of filters that I have opened. The media only looks better, I don't know that it is better.
You don't have a clicker style by-pass valve if you can see a spring down the center tube area.
Your specific filter has been around since the 1980's that I remember. It fits an 89 Probe.
As far as I am aware, Champ has had no design changes ( other than media differences depending on brand) on the filter since it was introduced. It's a PH2867 in various Champ lines.
Your specific filter has been around since the 1980's that I remember. It fits an 89 Probe.
As far as I am aware, Champ has had no design changes ( other than media differences depending on brand) on the filter since it was introduced. It's a PH2867 in various Champ lines.
I'd opine that if you're seeing a measurable drop in oil content in the filter over the course of removing it at changeout time, you may have a worn oil pump that's losing its prime too quickly. I've used Champion Labs-made oil filters in three cars and a truck over the last six years without any problems. Since I'm not what I'd consider "lucky" by any stretch of the imagination, I can only suspect that the recent spate of "problems" attributed to Champion Labs-made motor oil filters are more imaginary than real.
Triple_Se7en
$50 Site Donor 2024
Quote:
I can only suspect that the recent spate of "problems" attributed to Champion Labs-made motor oil filters are more imaginary than real.
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Imagining & real life are two different animals. There are plenty of posts recently signaling problems with some Champions... mostly all involving Super Techs.
Many do not keep oil in the filter due to their crappy bypass. Just recently, they improved their gaskets so I won't lose my expensive synthetic oil all over the Detroit Metro roads & on my driveway.
If you like them... buy em'.... but I prefer physical images over mental ones with my vehicles.
I can only suspect that the recent spate of "problems" attributed to Champion Labs-made motor oil filters are more imaginary than real.
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Imagining & real life are two different animals. There are plenty of posts recently signaling problems with some Champions... mostly all involving Super Techs.
Many do not keep oil in the filter due to their crappy bypass. Just recently, they improved their gaskets so I won't lose my expensive synthetic oil all over the Detroit Metro roads & on my driveway.
If you like them... buy em'.... but I prefer physical images over mental ones with my vehicles.
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Well, that's the funny thing, Tri-7, before lubeowner had issues with his Warner filters ...I don't recall an issue on this board with a Super Tech. I believe, if you filter out a couple of ecore issues involving the felt end cap, that there is maybe two or three ST issues on the board ..in it's history (okay, if you search ..you'll probably find 4). This is about 3mm in a VERY DEEP pool of use.
Now if you stated that many that have used ST have abandoned them for the perception (the one that you have, as well) that ST's have lots of problems ...then it would be true.
Now if you stated that many that have used ST have abandoned them for the perception (the one that you have, as well) that ST's have lots of problems ...then it would be true.
Triple_Se7en
$50 Site Donor 2024
Quote:
Now if you stated that many that have used ST have abandoned them for the perception (the one that you have, as well) that ST's have lots of problems ...then it would be true.
=================================================
There is no perception in posts that state the new Ecores need some more development work.
Again.. imagination & perception are mental
.......... typed words & photos are the real deal
While the internet can be full of lies, pictures usually don't lie. I had my doubts about the new Super Techs.. even wanted to believe that the new would perform like the old.
Well they don't.... I still have some brown spot living proof on my driveway. I still have the old filter with hardly no oil remaining inside when I drained it.
Buy Motorcaft for $1.50 more.. Wix for $3 more.
Now if you stated that many that have used ST have abandoned them for the perception (the one that you have, as well) that ST's have lots of problems ...then it would be true.
=================================================
There is no perception in posts that state the new Ecores need some more development work.
Again.. imagination & perception are mental
.......... typed words & photos are the real deal
While the internet can be full of lies, pictures usually don't lie. I had my doubts about the new Super Techs.. even wanted to believe that the new would perform like the old.
Well they don't.... I still have some brown spot living proof on my driveway. I still have the old filter with hardly no oil remaining inside when I drained it.
Buy Motorcaft for $1.50 more.. Wix for $3 more.
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- Sep 28, 2002
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There is no perception in posts that state the new Ecores need some more development work. You did read this part, didn't you? " if you filter out a couple of ecore issues involving the felt end cap"
I still have some brown spot living proof on my driveway. Just curious ..but how does any internal oil filter problem cause a brown spot on your driveway? Now in your shorts, surely, if you're one for anxiety/panic attacks and open any filter and find something amiss ..but the driveway??
Yes, MotorCraft for $0.90 -$2 more is a good deal.
I still have some brown spot living proof on my driveway. Just curious ..but how does any internal oil filter problem cause a brown spot on your driveway? Now in your shorts, surely, if you're one for anxiety/panic attacks and open any filter and find something amiss ..but the driveway??
Yes, MotorCraft for $0.90 -$2 more is a good deal.
With a bad ADBV, oil will drain back into the crankcase through the
inlet anytime the the engine is shut off. The worse the valve, the
sooner you will get valve clatter on restart.
If the bypass is stuck open or leaking, the filter and oil galleries
should stay full of oil when the engine is off, therefore without start up
noise. When you remove the filter, oil will flow from the dirty side to
the clean side and out the outlet, draining the filter. This means more
unfiltered oil bypassing the filter.
When you remove the filter, if the ABDV is working, oil retained on the
clean side and above the filter, will run out the outlet. If you remove
the filter hot, you might miss a small ADVB leak. If the ADBV holds,
but not the bypass, the oil on the dirty side may flow through the
bypass and out the outlet leaving the filter empty.
A long time ago, I gave up trying to empty filters without drilling a
hole in them. I could let them set around for a week thread side down,
and they would still have oil in them, ABDV and bypass working. I may
have been using AC or Purolator then. It is possible it was in my Lee
and Fram days. Since 1977 on my truck, I had a bad experience with I think an Empee filter, then paid robber prices for AC's, switched to Fram, and then
back to AC or Purolator, and several years ago, to ST 3950. I don't remember
exactly when I used what. I also don't ever remember start up noise, or
not having oil come out of the filter on removal, and still retain
some oil. Not having hydraulic lifters reduces the chances of start up
noise. Since I started using the ST 3950 in my truck, I am not sure I
ever tried to drain one without drilling a hole in it.
inlet anytime the the engine is shut off. The worse the valve, the
sooner you will get valve clatter on restart.
If the bypass is stuck open or leaking, the filter and oil galleries
should stay full of oil when the engine is off, therefore without start up
noise. When you remove the filter, oil will flow from the dirty side to
the clean side and out the outlet, draining the filter. This means more
unfiltered oil bypassing the filter.
When you remove the filter, if the ABDV is working, oil retained on the
clean side and above the filter, will run out the outlet. If you remove
the filter hot, you might miss a small ADVB leak. If the ADBV holds,
but not the bypass, the oil on the dirty side may flow through the
bypass and out the outlet leaving the filter empty.
A long time ago, I gave up trying to empty filters without drilling a
hole in them. I could let them set around for a week thread side down,
and they would still have oil in them, ABDV and bypass working. I may
have been using AC or Purolator then. It is possible it was in my Lee
and Fram days. Since 1977 on my truck, I had a bad experience with I think an Empee filter, then paid robber prices for AC's, switched to Fram, and then
back to AC or Purolator, and several years ago, to ST 3950. I don't remember
exactly when I used what. I also don't ever remember start up noise, or
not having oil come out of the filter on removal, and still retain
some oil. Not having hydraulic lifters reduces the chances of start up
noise. Since I started using the ST 3950 in my truck, I am not sure I
ever tried to drain one without drilling a hole in it.
Rayh: Man I do hope you are wrong on that one. Its a civic with 65k on the clock the thing is barely broke in!
oilguy3: My civic holds 3.7 quarts, I am anal about putting in exactly to the full mark. If the oil level is 1/8 inch above or below the line, I see it. In this case it was above the line. Therefore I either have that much fuel going into the crankcse or it had to come from my oil filter. I'm almost positive it wasn't fuel. I have two champion lab filter left. I will keep an eye peeled for similar sympthoms. after that...I'm going to wix.
oilguy3: My civic holds 3.7 quarts, I am anal about putting in exactly to the full mark. If the oil level is 1/8 inch above or below the line, I see it. In this case it was above the line. Therefore I either have that much fuel going into the crankcse or it had to come from my oil filter. I'm almost positive it wasn't fuel. I have two champion lab filter left. I will keep an eye peeled for similar sympthoms. after that...I'm going to wix.
If you naively trust absolutely in pictures, Triple_Se7en, then Superman, UFOs, and three-headed dragons on the "big screen" are fact, not speculative fiction. Ever hear of PhotoShop(tm) and computer-aided photo-realistic animation? Believe what you want, Bub, but some of us aren't that gullible.
Triple_Se7en ..
Yes Champ change gasket compounds on their e-core filters.
DYI'ers weren't having a problem with leaking filters. It seemed that quick lubes had some problems. You figure it out.
Besides..if the filter leaks, just hand tighten it a 1/4 turn. If you can still do that then maybe someone didn't tighten it properly in the first place.
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Labman great explaination of what happens when an anti-drain or By-pass is stuck open and "leaks".
Yes Champ change gasket compounds on their e-core filters.
DYI'ers weren't having a problem with leaking filters. It seemed that quick lubes had some problems. You figure it out.
Besides..if the filter leaks, just hand tighten it a 1/4 turn. If you can still do that then maybe someone didn't tighten it properly in the first place.
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Labman great explaination of what happens when an anti-drain or By-pass is stuck open and "leaks".
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