Super Vel Ammo Is Back !

[bunnspecial]

I've always considered the .357 caliber 125gr and 158gr Gold Dot to be a dog in performance regardless of the cartridge in which it's loaded.

I consider the 135gr .357 projectile loaded by Speer as "Gold Dot Short Barrels" is an excellent projectile in really any length barrel whether in 38 special +P or 357 magnum. BTW, the published velocity figures for the 357 Mag load are from a 2" vented test barrel, and they don't look that great vs. the 38 special +P. Out of a 4" barrel, they chrono in the 1200fps range in my experience-definitely well into "proper" 357 mag territory.

As a general rule, I don't shoot 357 Mags out of snubs because I don't consider the extra noise and flash to give that much advantage relative to what is generally a relatively small performance increase vs. a 38 special +P(the difference is often in the 100fps range). In my experience, you need a 4" barrel at a minimum for 357 Mags to show a marked advantage.

 

[901Memphis]

Originally Posted By: bunnspecial
I've always considered the .357 caliber 125gr and 158gr Gold Dot to be a dog in performance regardless of the cartridge in which it's loaded.

I consider the 135gr .357 projectile loaded by Speer as "Gold Dot Short Barrels" is an excellent projectile in really any length barrel whether in 38 special +P or 357 magnum. BTW, the published velocity figures for the 357 Mag load are from a 2" vented test barrel, and they don't look that great vs. the 38 special +P. Out of a 4" barrel, they chrono in the 1200fps range in my experience-definitely well into "proper" 357 mag territory.

As a general rule, I don't shoot 357 Mags out of snubs because I don't consider the extra noise and flash to give that much advantage relative to what is generally a relatively small performance increase vs. a 38 special +P(the difference is often in the 100fps range). In my experience, you need a 4" barrel at a minimum for 357 Mags to show a marked advantage.


Have you seen this test yet? It was just done last month from 2 and 4 inch barrel revolvers with 38 special and 357 loads.



Here is the full chart, but the video has great information.

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/revolver-ballistics-test/


Also another great video he did here with a test course

 

[KCJeep]

Yeah, sorry, center of mass.

 

[bunnspecial]

Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Originally Posted By: bunnspecial
I've always considered the .357 caliber 125gr and 158gr Gold Dot to be a dog in performance regardless of the cartridge in which it's loaded.

I consider the 135gr .357 projectile loaded by Speer as "Gold Dot Short Barrels" is an excellent projectile in really any length barrel whether in 38 special +P or 357 magnum. BTW, the published velocity figures for the 357 Mag load are from a 2" vented test barrel, and they don't look that great vs. the 38 special +P. Out of a 4" barrel, they chrono in the 1200fps range in my experience-definitely well into "proper" 357 mag territory.

As a general rule, I don't shoot 357 Mags out of snubs because I don't consider the extra noise and flash to give that much advantage relative to what is generally a relatively small performance increase vs. a 38 special +P(the difference is often in the 100fps range). In my experience, you need a 4" barrel at a minimum for 357 Mags to show a marked advantage.


Have you seen this test yet? It was just done last month from 2 and 4 inch barrel revolvers with 38 special and 357 loads.


Thanks-that really was an interesting and eye-opening read.

There are a couple of things that stuck out at me.

I mentioned my dislike of the 125gr Gold Dot, and I have a similar feeling toward the 158gr. The complete lack of expansion and huge overpenetration just confirms that. In fact, I notice the only other 357 Mag load that consistently didn't expand was the 140gr Leverevolution, something that's not surprising as this really is intended as an 18"+ rifle bullet and also has some other weird properties that make it a poor handgun bullet. I've never bought the commercial load, but have hand loaded the bullet-I load it over a slow powder(or even a fast rifle powder like IMR 4227) and shoot it out of my 357 lever gun.

Even with the lack of penetration and/or expansion in a lot of 38 special loads, some still left an impressive wound channel. Velocity is one of the main considerations in this.

Although expansion was not consistent, I was still happy to see how well one of my other favorite loads-the Remington 158gr LSWCHP-did. The fact that the bullet expanded more reliably than the Federal version of the same seems to show what I've always thought-the Remington bullets are softer lead. Also, even if the bullet doesn't expand it's still a semi-wadcutter, and that is a design with a decent track record even in non-HP form. The wound channel shown in the videos seems to bear this out.

In any case, like I said thanks for posting that. I'm going to spend some more time digesting it.

 

[901Memphis]

I really like the Hornady critical defense.

 

[Robenstein]

Exactly, tonight when going on my walk I had an A shirt, a T shirt, a Dickies work shirt, and a hoodie on. In Florida you may not have to worry about that but people layer up here in 3/4 of the year.

 

[Robenstein]

Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
I really like the Hornady critical defense.


It is good ammo. It doesn't usually expand as much as its capable competitors, but it is generally reliable and penetrates to a good depth. It is one of just a few 380 loadings I trust to get the job done.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
I really like the Hornady critical defense.


Agree..... plus the Federal HST LE. These two are top-shelf performers.

 

[L_Sludger]

If you want the be-all, end-all of cartridges, look no further than Federal 9BPLE. It's powerful... it's like firing an AIR-2 Genie out of your handgun. It's +P+ so make sure you have a real handgun like a Sig Sauer P22x series gun.

Just make sure you wear anti-flash white when you use it, because it's got kilotons of energy.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: L_Sludger
If you want the be-all, end-all of cartridges, look no further than Federal 9BPLE. It's powerful... it's like firing an AIR-2 Genie out of your handgun. It's +P+ so make sure you have a real handgun like a Sig Sauer P22x series gun.
Plenty of velocity yes, but plenty of jacket separation too. Youtube is full of standardized tests of this round and all the ones I have seen show separation with one from TNOutdoor9 that shows the bullet weighing in at 86 grains due to lead and jacket separation. Federal HSTs, Speer Gold Dots, Hornady Critical Duty, and Winchester PDX1 or Ranger are usually much better choices. But if the Federal 9BPLE was all that I had...

 

[901Memphis]

Originally Posted By: L_Sludger
If you want the be-all, end-all of cartridges, look no further than Federal 9BPLE. It's powerful... it's like firing an AIR-2 Genie out of your handgun. It's +P+ so make sure you have a real handgun like a Sig Sauer P22x series gun.


I like the 9BPLE because it's not much more than target ammo and it gives you a defensive ammo recoil impulse.

It doesn't hurt that in a pinch it will certainly be a good choice for a defensive round, even with the weight retention issues it's got a lot of street cred for stopping bad guys.

 

[L_Sludger]

Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Originally Posted By: L_Sludger
If you want the be-all, end-all of cartridges, look no further than Federal 9BPLE. It's powerful... it's like firing an AIR-2 Genie out of your handgun. It's +P+ so make sure you have a real handgun like a Sig Sauer P22x series gun.
Plenty of velocity yes, but plenty of jacket separation too. Youtube is full of standardized tests of this round and all the ones I have seen show separation with one from TNOutdoor9 that shows the bullet weighing in at 86 grains due to lead and jacket separation. Federal HSTs, Speer Gold Dots, Hornady Critical Duty, and Winchester PDX1 or Ranger are usually much better choices. But if the Federal 9BPLE was all that I had...
It's affordable enough to train with and carry.

The really best ammo in 9mm is Winchester Ranger T 127gr +P+ but it's VERY expensive on the market, whenever it is available (Winchester restricts all resellers to sell them to mil/le only). When it is not retail-available, you can get it from scalpers in limited quantities for more than a buck a round. Oof!
Plus, the 9BPLE doesn't have any nasty stigma that would cause problems by themselves to a prosecutor or jury in a self-defense case. And it feeds great! it's well rounded off so you can feed it in whatever feeds round nose FMJ.
I love the stuff, if you can't tell. You just have to deal with the recoil and have a good enough recoil spring, maybe 40SW class, if it beats up your frame.

 

[901Memphis]

Not impressed with the Ranger T based on this.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Not impressed with the Ranger T based on this.

TNOutdoors9 does a great job on his testing and he is a nice guy too. Federal HSTs are my EDC rounds and if you shop (Bone Frog) you can find a box of 50 for $18ish. This is cheap enough to carry and practice with and it is a known performer.

 

[901Memphis]

Yeah TNoutdoors9 was on a Hickok45 video recently he said he might be back on YouTube soon but he's been busy with work.

I carry 124 HST standard pressure myself, but most because of Shootingthebull410 conforming it's ability in 3 inch guns like my shield

 

[bubbatime]

Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Not impressed with the Ranger T based on this.


I have spoken with an investigator that responds to all officer involved shootings at one department that uses that round. The Ranger T 127+P+ is considered gods thunderbolt at that department. INSTANT stops, most being one shot stops if hit in the upper torso. I know its only one department, but the stuff flat out works at this department in Florida. They have used the round for years and are extremely happy with its performance.

 

[billt460]

The Ranger T loads are basically the old Black Talon loads everyone raved about. They just took the black oxide coating off the bullets, and changed the name.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: billt460
The Ranger T loads are basically the old Black Talon loads everyone raved about. They just took the black oxide coating off the bullets, and changed the name.
Yep...a little long in the tooth, but **usually** works in real life (though not always in ballistic tests)

 

[bubbatime]

Originally Posted By: billt460
The Ranger T loads are basically the old Black Talon loads everyone raved about. They just took the black oxide coating off the bullets, and changed the name.


They upgraded the rounds as well. They did a bit more than just "take the black oxide coating off."

 

[hatt]

Where's the gel testing?