Super tech filters changed

[TheRedlines]

Not sure if this is news or not. I have been using the super tech ST8A since I have read that they are a good filter made by champion. I just picked up three more filters from Walmart. When I got them home I compared them against the ones I already have on my shelf. The new design is quite a bit different from the old champion style. Are they still decent filters? Maybe a new manufacturer? Here are a couple of pics. You can see more holes, its about 1/2" shorter, still a dull plate, different crimp and instead of a metal can with holes inside it has a plastic frame.

 

[csandste]

http://www.champlabs.com/ECOREBROCHURE.pdf

Also look at the Ecore discussions here.

 

[TheRedlines]

 

[427Z06]

The one on the right is the new Ecore design. Lot of controversy about them right now. See some of the other threads. IMHO, it looks like Champion Labs succumbed to the current corporate cost cutting craze. Glad I have a lot of old stock.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Quote:
Are they still decent filters?

Because of changes to Super Tech filters, my driveway now looks like a Dalmation dog.... spots all over due to bad gasket. I took the other three new Crappy Techs in my garage & tossed them in the garbage.

Buy AC Delco - Motorcraft - Purolator for a dollar or two more.

 

[Filter guy]

I have an E-core on my car now.

I had Firestone do the oil change. I took Mobil 1 oil and a Super Tech E-core there. I specifically told the mechanic to make sure he followed the tightening instructions on the element. Which is add 3/4 of a turn after the filter contacts the base.

He said he did. There were no apparent leaks when he finished.

I drove home about 1.5 miles. Watched some of the Masters golf tournament and went to check during commercial. I had put a piece of cardboard under the car to check for leaks. It had leaked.

So I popped the hood. As my car is a Taurus the filter can be reached that way. I was able to hand tighten the filter 1/4 turn. It hasn't leaked since.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

You got a good one filter guy. I have installed around 127 consecutive AC Delcos, Purolators & Motorcrafts without leaks. I'm sure gaskets have changed over the years on these three brands also.

Too bad the first Super Tech I ever tried leaked. Won't never give them a 2nd chance. Champion tried to save a penny or two on these early ones... big mistake because to refill the crankcase with quality oil cost me as much as the Super Tech filter ($2.08).

 

[Filter guy]

Triple_Se7en


Based on your vast experience..tell me how Champ saved a penny or two on the E-core filter.

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by Filter guy:
Triple_Se7en


Based on your vast experience..tell me how Champ saved a penny or two on the E-core filter.

---

The filters don't seem to be working any better, by many accounts they are lower quality then the older ones. If they didn't go to a lower quality product to save money why did they do it?

This is starting to sound like a Fram thread. A company turns out a crappy looking product that gets a lot of hands on user trouble reports, then the excuses start flying.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Quote:
Based on your vast experience..tell me how Champ saved a penny or two on the E-core filter.

I'll just name one area.... won't even mention anything about gaskets, glue... etc. I have no vast experience. Don't know why you'd say something like that. I only mentioned the quality of my 127 oil changes... buying the right oils & right filters for the least amount of money.

OK... back to your question! If you own a small tool-shop micrometer, measure the shell thickness of the old SuperTechs... then the new Ecores.

Now take the shells & put one in each hand. Now grip hard.

Nuff said!

 

[Filter guy]

And that's it?

When I was at Champ they built approximately 500,000 filters per day. The E-core production line is a new purpose built line.

They stamp out all their own cans.

Based on volume...what percentage of E-core filters do you think comprises their total production for a day?

And based on the amount of steel Champ buys, even considering your claim of a difference in the shell thickness, which steel would be cheaper to Champ based on volume. The "standard" steel. Or the "thinner" E-core?

And btw..Champ uses US steel for their filters. Take a tour of the plants. They don't use cheaper offshore steel.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Filter Guy

How did this SuperTech discussion get turned into a Champion discussion?

If you like the Super Techs... then use them!

I am very fond of AC Delcos.... aren't they Champions? So you see.... I'm not anti-Champion.

By-the-way... if you are willing to buy/defend these thin-shelled Super Tech, be real careful spinning the used filter off.... especially if it's tightened too much. It may collapse on ya'.... then you'll need all that experience to remove it with a screwdriver.... lol

 

[Ray H]

And before you level charges of inferior thickness shell steel, Triple Se7en, make darned sure you can back them up with certified measurements rather than, it's-so-'cause-I-say-it's-so, "logic". This board seems to tolerate unsubstantiated allegations by the hundreds which are immediately hailed as holy grail "wisdom" in knee-jerk lockstep by the general membership. We're lucky to have someone with Filter guy's expertise to share his knowledge, but, I'm just as sure if we try real hard, we'll ultimately succeed in driving him away, yet. (Danged fool - just can't get it in his filter backgrounded head that he's wrong about Fram, Champion, and e-core - pathetic!)

By the way, Triple Se7en, whadayawanna bet that some applicable ACs haven't already been converted to e-core technology?

 

[Colt]

I just bought a ST from Walmart to use for a near future for a 2000 mile dino change to get me to 5K miles on our '05 Corolla then I'll switch to Mobil 1 and a Wix.
The threads have filings of metal which I'll have to clear out before the install.
At this point I think I'll take the filter back to Walmart and just use a Wix and go extra 1000 miles.

 

[Filter guy]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Triple_Se7en:
Filter Guy

How did this SuperTech discussion get turned into a Champion discussion?

If you like the Super Techs... then use them!

I am very fond of AC Delcos.... aren't they Champions? So you see.... I'm not anti-Champion.

By-the-way... if you are willing to buy/defend these thin-shelled Super Tech, be real careful spinning the used filter off.... especially if it's tightened too much. It may collapse on ya'.... then you'll need all that experience to remove it with a screwdriver.... lol

---

It got turned into a Champiom discussion when you started in with the "save a penny or two".

Unless you know for a fact that the whole reason a major filter company comes out with a whole new design through testing, developement, adding a whole new purpose built production line-- with all new equipment..

I'd like to see you justify that it was all an attempt to "save a penny or two"?

They could do that with other cost savings measures in their current manufacturing processes. In fact they have for years. Which is why filter prices haven't shot up on the "standard" filter.

But i'll await your further answers as your convinced it was all about saving a penny or two.

Oh and btw..yes A. C. Delco will have E-core in their product line.

So does that mean AC Delco are dupes and don't have a clue as to the "problems" with E-core?

Are they changing over to "save a penny or two" as well for themselves?

What about other companies who allow the E-core into their product line?

And what are you going to say when E-core is used as the OEM filter for one of the vehicle OEM's? Another bunch of dupes who never did any testing. Don't know about the crappy endcaps that aren't glued solid like metal endcaps and are easily pulled apart from the element. That they have such skinny shells versus the standard ones. Don't AC and others know this...

... or maybe they do know what a good filter it is....

So yeah, I have no problem using Super Tech , even the ones with the old sealing gasket..

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Quote:
I'd like to see you justify that it was all an attempt to "save a penny or two"?

It's rather clear when you look at the price increase that I have witnessed in my neck of the woods.

Hopefully, AC Delco will demonstrate to Champion that changes must be made to improve the Ecore. If not, then no more ACs or Champion for me. There's Purolator - there's Wix.... there's more apples in the orchard.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Quote:
So is the price increase in your area due to manufacturing costs?


It's irrelevant filter guy.... it exists & it ain't going away until/if a sale occurs. In the meantime, the Ecore oil filter can continue to mirror itself in competition with sub-standard/low quality Fram.

I'm done here filter guy. I declare you the winner because you're showing more love for lousy filters than I am... lol

 

[windcatcher]

Frankly Im confused, in the past the preponderance of evidence has shown fram to be low in quality to some other filters and when ecore came out some people thought they were good but we are begining to see problems with them. ACs are made by champ quite possably outside the country another quality question. In this thread we find a change in super tech is it for better or worse? Why would a knowlegable person buy a unknown quality item and be a test driver for that company when he or she could buy a wix or purolater etc. and let others do the testing. Lubeowner is a example of real life testing, a lot of people give evidence of good and bad filters here. We will find out in good time what is what
In the mean time I welcome every ones opinion.Mike

 

[Filter guy]

So is the price increase in your area due to manufacturing costs?

Or distributors improving their margins?

Do distributors jack the price up an extra dollar because they know that some customers wait for the dollar off coupon in the sunday paper? So they make that extra dollar profit when the "factory" coupon isn't used...
Nah..they wouldn't do that..