I would like to say hi to all, a long time lurker but this is the first time I post. The problem I have is my dad's Subaru WRX. The car has 12,000 km right now, and it's on its second oil change, the last one at 11 k km, and the first one at 2000 km. What happened is that up until 10,000 km or so, it burned about half liter of oil. At 11,500 km I found the dipstick dry! It burned 2 liters of oil in 1500 km. The weird thing is that it was burning very little earlier in the OCI. Is that normal if the oil is worked out hard? Does it have to do with the weather getting hotter lately? Some info you might find useful is that the car is in Greece, temperatures are in the 90's now, it sees 120 mph every day. The oil in question was Shell Helix Ultra 5w40. Wrong oil? Defective car? My WRX in Boston consumes no oil, with Delvac 5w40. Unfortunately I can't find it here. Any suggestions? Thanks!
Subaru wrx oil burner!
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Unless this car has a very good oil cooler. Temperature in the 90s and 120 MPH is a recipe for extremely high oil temperature. Under such conditions a motor is going to use a fair amount of oil. A slightly thicker oil may help some but the better fix would be a real good oil cooler.
You did not break in the engie properly.
Too many WOT lauches/runs while the engine was breaking in.
Shell Helix is good oil from what I understand.
Driver error may be problem
It may consume oil now for the rest of the car's life.
Too many WOT lauches/runs while the engine was breaking in.
Shell Helix is good oil from what I understand.
Driver error may be problem
It may consume oil now for the rest of the car's life.
Yassou Niko, Kalo Kalokeri!
What viscosities does Subaru say to use for Hellas' climate and the high speeds you run? How long is the 120+mph, maintained?
Yes the oil is really being worked hard, but Shell Helix 5-40 is an excellent oil, and the WRX, has the proper coolers from the factory. At 10000+ kms., it may be worn out. Try 5000km., oil changes with the proper grade, if the Shell Helix 5-40, is it, and see what happens.
You may have to experement, 10-60wt.,like the BMW M motors. or to a lighter blend, 0-30 or 0-40, synthetics, Mobil 1 or Castrol Syntecs. Dr. AEHaas, is 5-40, too thick for the high engine and road speeds and ambient temperatures?
I think with a 5000 km OCI, you will solve the problem for your high speed use. Trexe, Trexe, Pedia!!!
Kali Tihi! How much for a US gallon of gas and diesel, in Greece, these days? PO! PO! PO!
What viscosities does Subaru say to use for Hellas' climate and the high speeds you run? How long is the 120+mph, maintained?
Yes the oil is really being worked hard, but Shell Helix 5-40 is an excellent oil, and the WRX, has the proper coolers from the factory. At 10000+ kms., it may be worn out. Try 5000km., oil changes with the proper grade, if the Shell Helix 5-40, is it, and see what happens.
You may have to experement, 10-60wt.,like the BMW M motors. or to a lighter blend, 0-30 or 0-40, synthetics, Mobil 1 or Castrol Syntecs. Dr. AEHaas, is 5-40, too thick for the high engine and road speeds and ambient temperatures?
I think with a 5000 km OCI, you will solve the problem for your high speed use. Trexe, Trexe, Pedia!!!
Kali Tihi! How much for a US gallon of gas and diesel, in Greece, these days? PO! PO! PO!
sxg6, I just looked at the facts given.
Vehicle has about 7500 miles.
1st OIl Change w/ 1200 miles on OEM factory fill
2nd Oil Change w/ 5600 miles on Shell Helix
Vehicle consumed 2 liters in under 1000 miles.
I have read here, and on other forums and elsewhere that WRX's are very tough and strong engines. Engine breakin is crucial to these high horsepower, highstress engines.
I stated that driver error MAY be a problem, not THE problem.
If it's not broken in properly, from what I have read, these engine start consuming oil early, and will continue to do so.
sxg6 quote:
"there still isnt even a general consensus on the proper way to break in an engine. everyone has different perspectives"
My perspective is from an individual vehicle owner's manual. Every vehicle owner's manual that I have read (I have read many, trust me) always give some sort of recommendation of break in period.
Most state some sort of RPM limit for a given engine hours or milage.
Most state to avoid WOT, and drving at a steady state for a long period of time for a given engine hour or milage.
Most state to vary engine RPM's (under a stated threshold) while driving.
This is how I came to my conclusion that there may be driver error.
What does you vehicle manual state about engine break-in sxg6?
I doubt the speed and temp plays a role on the consuming of oil.
I'm not trying to be an a$$ with this post, but come on, if I had a new WRX in a european country with probably very lax speed limits, I would be very tempted to drive the car like it was stolen the very minute I drove off the lot.
Would'nt you?
Nikolas, ask your Dad how he drove the car when he first bought it.
Tell him to take it to the dealer anyways to get it checked out. Lets hope its a bad PCV valve or something simple.
Vehicle has about 7500 miles.
1st OIl Change w/ 1200 miles on OEM factory fill
2nd Oil Change w/ 5600 miles on Shell Helix
Vehicle consumed 2 liters in under 1000 miles.
I have read here, and on other forums and elsewhere that WRX's are very tough and strong engines. Engine breakin is crucial to these high horsepower, highstress engines.
I stated that driver error MAY be a problem, not THE problem.
If it's not broken in properly, from what I have read, these engine start consuming oil early, and will continue to do so.
sxg6 quote:
"there still isnt even a general consensus on the proper way to break in an engine. everyone has different perspectives"
My perspective is from an individual vehicle owner's manual. Every vehicle owner's manual that I have read (I have read many, trust me) always give some sort of recommendation of break in period.
Most state some sort of RPM limit for a given engine hours or milage.
Most state to avoid WOT, and drving at a steady state for a long period of time for a given engine hour or milage.
Most state to vary engine RPM's (under a stated threshold) while driving.
This is how I came to my conclusion that there may be driver error.
What does you vehicle manual state about engine break-in sxg6?
I doubt the speed and temp plays a role on the consuming of oil.
I'm not trying to be an a$$ with this post, but come on, if I had a new WRX in a european country with probably very lax speed limits, I would be very tempted to drive the car like it was stolen the very minute I drove off the lot.
Would'nt you?
Nikolas, ask your Dad how he drove the car when he first bought it.
Tell him to take it to the dealer anyways to get it checked out. Lets hope its a bad PCV valve or something simple.
As no-one else has do so
I would think the high revs (plus plenty of boost) used at 120mph would definately contibute to the high oil consumption. Check the manual, but I would be surprised if this wasn't severe sevice and warrant shortened oil changes.
I would think the high revs (plus plenty of boost) used at 120mph would definately contibute to the high oil consumption. Check the manual, but I would be surprised if this wasn't severe sevice and warrant shortened oil changes.
Ditto. I seriously doubt your problems are from improper break in. Engines are broken in at the factory, and if some of you saw how they do it, you'd probably cry. Guess what they do? They take it to higher rpms with a load on the engine. OH NOquote:
Originally posted by theguru:
As no-one else has do so
I would think the high revs (plus plenty of boost) used at 120mph would definately contibute to the high oil consumption. Check the manual, but I would be surprised if this wasn't severe sevice and warrant shortened oil changes.
Thanks for the relpies everyone, I think that we need to do some clarifications. First, my dad takes the italian break in approach. The car saw WOT from 20 km on the odometer, i think he tried to see the top speed on day one. I have the exact same car, and I took it easy during break in. Mine consumes zero oil with 20 k miles. On the other hand it does not feel as fast, so my dad's approach might not be entirely wrong. The problem is that the oil consumption was pretty steady during the first part of the OCI but it consumed oil like crazy the last 1000 miles or so. Oil too tired maybe? This engine has an oil to water cooler so oil temps are probably kept reasonable.
So far I am 1000 km in the oil change and it seems that there is no consumption. If the problem persists I think that one approach would be to shorten the OCI, but with each oil change running at $100, this gets pricey, and the factory says 10000 km with regular service. I guess I can cross my fingers and say that this oil is not a good match for this engine.
Anyone willing to take a guess why the oil consumption accelerated so badly in 1000 miles? Maybe the gurus can help? Thanks
By the way, premium runs for approximately $5 per gallon...
So far I am 1000 km in the oil change and it seems that there is no consumption. If the problem persists I think that one approach would be to shorten the OCI, but with each oil change running at $100, this gets pricey, and the factory says 10000 km with regular service. I guess I can cross my fingers and say that this oil is not a good match for this engine.
Anyone willing to take a guess why the oil consumption accelerated so badly in 1000 miles? Maybe the gurus can help? Thanks
By the way, premium runs for approximately $5 per gallon...
Just like Rodney Dangerfield, "I get no respect!"
I had a subaru impreza and it ticked me off i did 3k oil changes and i put synthetic in around 9k miles and it didnt like it. Dont get me wrong it ran good on it but i took it on a 300 mile trip and when i went to leave to go back home i found that i had no oil on the dip stick left.... But after that i noticed if i kept a 30w oil in it it never fell below the dip stick again even on long trips. There was no error on my part here and i didnt run the car hard.... There were no leaks it just burt it up i guess. I have heard that subaru engines are fussy about oil. But like i said conventional or synthetic 30w oil never burt off. I think the oil in the H engine is worked differently and different stresses are created just my 2cents.
With all respect, proper break in procedures are at best subjective. I've tried both on the exact same engine, and the results are as follows. Taking it easy gives no consumption, but the engine feels more sluggish. The other approach potentially gives more oil consumption, but the engine feels 20 hp stronger. I say potentially because to be honest, I cannot predict long term reliability, one engine has 20 k miles on it, and the other one has 8 k miles on it.
My intention is to make sure that there is nothing fundamentally wrong with the oil itself (too thick/thin, or the engine just doesn't like it, too long OCI) before we start blaming the break in. I want to hear all opinions though, so keep them coming!
My intention is to make sure that there is nothing fundamentally wrong with the oil itself (too thick/thin, or the engine just doesn't like it, too long OCI) before we start blaming the break in. I want to hear all opinions though, so keep them coming!
I would do a compression check in order to find out if the oil is getting past the rings or valve seals.
If the compression is poor, maybe you could stick a borescope down the spark plug holes to inspect the cylinders. Look for scratches or gouges that shouldn't be there.
If the rings are stuck, maybe AutoRx could help you.
If the compression is poor, maybe you could stick a borescope down the spark plug holes to inspect the cylinders. Look for scratches or gouges that shouldn't be there.
If the rings are stuck, maybe AutoRx could help you.
Are there Used Oil Analysis in Europe?
That may tell us more facts, than just assumptions.
Maybe he should try a Euro Castrol Syn.
Is the Shell Helix Syn the OEM Subaru dealer oil?
nikolas quote:
"but the engine feels 20 hp stronger."
I am assuming you mean your Dad's Euro spec WRX feels 20hp stronger than your US spec WRX?
His Euro WRX may not have air bags, saftey glass, and other US spec safety equipment, so his car may be lighter than yours.
Could his Euro WRX have decontented emission control devices that he lacks, but yours has?
Could his Euro fuel be of higher Octane and higher quality than out US fuel?
If this is true, a Euro Spec WRX with limited emission control devices using higher quality, higher octane fuel, may indeed have 20 hp more than your US Spec WRX with lower octane and full emission controls.
Check with your pops about his local Octane and Emissions contol devices.
Euro octane ratings are different than US spec Octane.
The US uses (RON+MON)/2 method of octane ratings.
Europe uses the RON method.
From what I recall, US spec 87 octane is about the equivalent to 92 octane in Europe.
So our US 93oct = euro's 98oct.
Just a thought.
I like looking at all the angles.
That may tell us more facts, than just assumptions.
Maybe he should try a Euro Castrol Syn.
Is the Shell Helix Syn the OEM Subaru dealer oil?
nikolas quote:
"but the engine feels 20 hp stronger."
I am assuming you mean your Dad's Euro spec WRX feels 20hp stronger than your US spec WRX?
His Euro WRX may not have air bags, saftey glass, and other US spec safety equipment, so his car may be lighter than yours.
Could his Euro WRX have decontented emission control devices that he lacks, but yours has?
Could his Euro fuel be of higher Octane and higher quality than out US fuel?
If this is true, a Euro Spec WRX with limited emission control devices using higher quality, higher octane fuel, may indeed have 20 hp more than your US Spec WRX with lower octane and full emission controls.
Check with your pops about his local Octane and Emissions contol devices.
Euro octane ratings are different than US spec Octane.
The US uses (RON+MON)/2 method of octane ratings.
Europe uses the RON method.
From what I recall, US spec 87 octane is about the equivalent to 92 octane in Europe.
So our US 93oct = euro's 98oct.
Just a thought.
I like looking at all the angles.
After more information being revealed about Pop's WRX, I think that the Shell Helix 5-40, is not the proper oil for the speeds and power outputs used. If compression tests and other checks show this engine to be healthy, then this engine is designed to use oil when being flailed to within an inch of it's life. Again, what's Subaru's oil recommendations for normal and severe use?
I personally think, that this Euro WRX engine is cooked, worn out, probably the rings were overheated and brittle, if not broken in some or all cylinders. Are you sure Pop, hasn't tweeked the Turbo?
I personally think, that this Euro WRX engine is cooked, worn out, probably the rings were overheated and brittle, if not broken in some or all cylinders. Are you sure Pop, hasn't tweeked the Turbo?
Whilst you will see different approaches to break-in, I don't remember seeeing anyone recommending maximum speed from day one.
Sorry, but I wouldn't call that style of driving breaking-in I think abuse may be more accurate.
I have heard (maybe only rumour) of Subaru Australia visiting racetracks and taking note of car registrations of cars that have been tracked. These was then passed on for warranty purposes.
A friend of mine hired a brand new car and took it to an disused airport to see how fast it would go. He took it back to the yard with the computer in limp mode.
Sorry, but I wouldn't call that style of driving breaking-in I think abuse may be more accurate.
I have heard (maybe only rumour) of Subaru Australia visiting racetracks and taking note of car registrations of cars that have been tracked. These was then passed on for warranty purposes.
A friend of mine hired a brand new car and took it to an disused airport to see how fast it would go. He took it back to the yard with the computer in limp mode.
Not an oil problem per se but how about broken rings? check the compression and let us know with out a good look everything here is a guess and my guess is a mechanical problem.
Well, if oil is not consumed quickly until a certain mileage range, then there's very obviously not a ring problem. The question I have about that is: Is the relationship of oil level on the dipstick to the amount of consumed oil linear in his vehicle? IOW, do you actually add 1 pint when it is halfway between full and empty and 1 quart when it is at empty, or is it a cup when it's halfway down and a quart when it's all the way down?
If the relationship is NOT linear and therefore consumption IS linear, then I agree that you're not going to help this problem with anything short of a light cylinder hone and new rings. If consumption is NOT linear, then simply shorten the OCI or try a different oil.
If the relationship is NOT linear and therefore consumption IS linear, then I agree that you're not going to help this problem with anything short of a light cylinder hone and new rings. If consumption is NOT linear, then simply shorten the OCI or try a different oil.
Thanks for all the replies, the conversation is really enlightening. Islandvic, the cars are identical, and I believe that the euro one is slightly heavier. The engines, at least visually appear identical too, so the the differences might be engine mapping and fuel, the euro one runs on 100 octane fuel. The car probably has no broken rings, otherwise it would leave a trail of smoke, and it doesn't.
So far, the consumption issue has been solved, it now runs Motul 10w-40, same driving, but negligible consumption so far. My guess is that a) the oil was wrong and/or b) I stretched the OCI too much given the usage.
So, based on this experience, 7 k miles on these conditions are too much, at least for this oil/engine combination.
Now, I would like to ask for some advice from the more experienced members. Anybody from Australia or the warm states has any experience on what works on this engine? D1 definitely does, but it's impossible to find here.
Btw, Subaru recommends anything from 5w30 to 20w-50, depending on conditions.
So far, the consumption issue has been solved, it now runs Motul 10w-40, same driving, but negligible consumption so far. My guess is that a) the oil was wrong and/or b) I stretched the OCI too much given the usage.
So, based on this experience, 7 k miles on these conditions are too much, at least for this oil/engine combination.
Now, I would like to ask for some advice from the more experienced members. Anybody from Australia or the warm states has any experience on what works on this engine? D1 definitely does, but it's impossible to find here.
Btw, Subaru recommends anything from 5w30 to 20w-50, depending on conditions.
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