Subaru Legacy 2.5 review

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Originally Posted By: emg
I did once manage to get stuck in my Forester with its 'POS AWD'. The tow truck couldn't tow me out with 4WD, it had to winch me out.

The 'POS AWD' was making a valiant try, but with two wheels off the ground and the other two on snow, it just ended up spinning all four wheels. With three wheels on the ground, it would probably have done its job and got me out.

Of course, I wouldn't even have been able to get myself into that spot if I didn't have snow tires.

It is POS AWD with that atrocity CVT.
I did one bike trail with ease with my Tiguan equipped with Continental DWS tires (and simple AWD) while my friends Impreza cut off power in order not to mess up transmission. Very useful I guess.
 
Originally Posted By: BearZDefect
Traffic lights or stop signs at the bottom of steep hills are insanity.

People sometimes need to be reminded that all cars have 4 wheel braking. An all-wheel-drive vehicle does not stop any better than a 2-wheel-drive vehicle. As others wrote, in wintery conditions tires make all the difference.

Problem is that most people who drive 4WD and AWD seriously do not have brain capacity to understand that.
 
Originally Posted By: emg
I did once manage to get stuck in my Forester with its 'POS AWD'. The tow truck couldn't tow me out with 4WD, it had to winch me out.

The 'POS AWD' was making a valiant try, but with two wheels off the ground and the other two on snow, it just ended up spinning all four wheels. With three wheels on the ground, it would probably have done its job and got me out.

Of course, I wouldn't even have been able to get myself into that spot if I didn't have snow tires.


I'm reminded of the old adage that 4WD allows you to get stuck a few hundred feet further down the trail than 2WD will.
 
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Originally Posted By: SeaJay
Depends upon one's definition of slow and how quick the driver wants to be off the line.
11 seconds to 60 is real world slow

Did you preload the transmission by holding the brake and gas? It a normal automatic with AWD this would help, but the CVT is torque limited and the TC multiplication isn't welcome. So preloading probably sends it into torque management mode and slows the initial launch.
Toyota is actually including a real 1st gear in their new high performance CVT, so it will launch as hard as possible, and then the CVT takes over.
 
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Originally Posted By: SeaJay
Depends upon one's definition of slow and how quick the driver wants to be off the line.
11 seconds to 60 is real world slow

Did you preload the transmission by holding the brake and gas? It a normal automatic with AWD this would help, but the CVT is torque limited and the TC multiplication isn't welcome. So preloading probably sends it into torque management mode and slows the initial launch.
Toyota is actually including a real 1st gear in their new high performance CVT, so it will launch as hard as possible, and then the CVT takes over.

I am not sure why in the love of God Subaru is not offering manual anymore? Or there is such low number of customers to actually want to buy one with manual?
That Outback has everything right (size, AWD) except transmission and engine. They are painfully slow here at high altitude. Only thing that Outback IMO has advantage over Golf Alltrack is size. In everything else Golf Alltrack is much, much better vehicle, but it should not be if Subaru would design something for people that do not feel dead yet.
 
Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
The manual is disappearing due to buyer preference.

BMW recently dropped it from most of their 3 series.

You cans till get it in 340i and 2 series.
However, unlike Subaru, BMW has ZF8 which is actually fun to drive.
 
I guess 2020 will see the Outback with a turbo and DI. I have to admit I purposely didn't test drive the manual AWD golf wagon, as it has no tow rating at all and its slightly smaller inside than my Focus which isn't what we needed and the all-track is priced way to high in Canada for whatever reason, like $8k for a 1" lift?, I'd feel stupid buying it to be honest.
2017 was the last year of the manual for the Outback as not many people chose them. There were a few left 2k miles away from me and I was tempted to fly out and get one, but in reality the EPA has wrecked manuals with their testing requiring such a short top gear, also 2018 brought some improvements which are nice to have. Also the odd 30mpg tank from the CVT is good on the wallet.
If we lived a mile higher, sure probably the power would be an issue, but for 600'ASL its doing fine for us. I find the handling and steering is kind of soft and mushy until you push it quite hard, then you have some steering feel and you can feel the swaybars doing their thing. Even fully loaded for camping with the canoe on top and with a 1000lbs trailer on, it corners pretty well on the windy highways. Certainly my wife intervenes long before it runs out of grip anyways!
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw

Colorado is second biggest market for Subaru in the US, and largest Subaru dealership is right here in Colorado Springs.
Again, number one car in the ditch when snows, fallowed by trucks and of course, JEEP's.


well if there are more subarus out there than other makes that would make sense.
 
Originally Posted By: badtlc
Originally Posted By: edyvw

Colorado is second biggest market for Subaru in the US, and largest Subaru dealership is right here in Colorado Springs.
Again, number one car in the ditch when snows, fallowed by trucks and of course, JEEP's.


well if there are more subarus out there than other makes that would make sense.

Maybe, they are way ahead of anything FWD or RWD. Most drivers of those cars think that AWD solves problems on slick surface. I find amazing that people think that going forward is more important then stoping.
But yeah, Subaru is extremely popular here. When you have clogged left lane on interstate, there are two options: Subaru or Toyota (Buick is not that popular here)
smile.gif
.
 
Originally Posted By: supton
I'm reminded of the old adage that 4WD allows you to get stuck a few hundred feet further down the trail than 2WD will.


Basically, yeah. I wouldn't have risked driving there without AWD, either. But it only works if at least one wheel can get some grip.
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
I am not sure why in the love of God Subaru is not offering manual anymore? Or there is such low number of customers to actually want to buy one with manual?


When we bought the Forester, I forgot to specify that we wanted the CVT model, and, when I mentioned that, the sales lady said they only stocked CVTs because hardly anyone wants manuals.

Yeah, it's odd that they don't offer the turbo as an option in more models, particularly for driving at altitude. Again, it's probably a small market.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
I'm convinced its due to the tires (and owner over-confidence) more than anything else. My BMW with decent winter tires will easily out handle a 4WD with all season tires in heavy snow.

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Subaru? Number one car in the ditch in Colorado when snow hits. I actually towed Outback with VW CC (FWD) from ditch. Company that claims that has best AWD, yet once things get bit rough it shuts down power to save CVT leaving driver and passengers stuck.
In sum: company that claims that has best passive safety while having probably worst active safety. I guess owners need all those airbags, self braking etc. because the way they move and brake, it is actually achievement to make it so bad.


I used to live on top of a hill in a broke city. The nearest streets to my apartment wouldn't get plowed for a minimum of 24 hours after a snow event, if they ever got plowed at all.

My front drive Focus on snow tires never once failed to get me home. I did pass many stuck AWD cars and crossovers.
 
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: kschachn
I'm convinced its due to the tires (and owner over-confidence) more than anything else. My BMW with decent winter tires will easily out handle a 4WD with all season tires in heavy snow.

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Subaru? Number one car in the ditch in Colorado when snow hits. I actually towed Outback with VW CC (FWD) from ditch. Company that claims that has best AWD, yet once things get bit rough it shuts down power to save CVT leaving driver and passengers stuck.
In sum: company that claims that has best passive safety while having probably worst active safety. I guess owners need all those airbags, self braking etc. because the way they move and brake, it is actually achievement to make it so bad.


I used to live on top of a hill in a broke city. The nearest streets to my apartment wouldn't get plowed for a minimum of 24 hours after a snow event, if they ever got plowed at all.

My front drive Focus on snow tires never once failed to get me home. I did pass many stuck AWD cars and crossovers.

I drove over Loveland Pass during blizzard at almost 12,000ft with VW CC FWD and Bridgestone Blizzaks LM-60.
 
Originally Posted By: emg
Originally Posted By: edyvw
I am not sure why in the love of God Subaru is not offering manual anymore? Or there is such low number of customers to actually want to buy one with manual?


When we bought the Forester, I forgot to specify that we wanted the CVT model, and, when I mentioned that, the sales lady said they only stocked CVTs because hardly anyone wants manuals.

Yeah, it's odd that they don't offer the turbo as an option in more models, particularly for driving at altitude. Again, it's probably a small market.

If there is no interest in turbo version of Outback with manual, then Subaru is really aiming at audience that is strictly from point A to point B.
Old Outbacks were always cars that I would like to have at any time in my garage. But these new ones? It is like they are competing how to make the most boring car out there.
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: Cujet
SeaJay said:
Depends upon one's definition of slow and how quick the driver wants to be off the line.
11 seconds to 60 is real world slow

Did you preload the transmission by holding the brake and gas? It a normal automatic with AWD this would help, but the CVT is torque limited and the TC multiplication isn't welcome. So preloading probably sends it into torque management mode and slows the initial launch.
Toyota is actually including a real 1st gear in their new high performance CVT, so it will launch as hard as possible, and then the CVT takes over.

I am not sure why in the love of God Subaru is not offering manual anymore? Or there is such low number of customers to actually want to buy one with manual?
That Outback has everything right (size, AWD) except transmission and engine. They are painfully slow here at high altitude. Only thing that Outback IMO has advantage over Golf Alltrack is size. In everything else Golf Alltrack is much, much better vehicle, but it should not be if Subaru would design something for people that do not feel dead yet. [/quote

They are really playing the safety game hard. There are safety reason that they can't have eyesight on a manual transmission. So good bye manuas.
Click to expand...
 
Quote:
They are really playing the safety game hard. There are safety reason that they can't have eyesight on a manual transmission. So good bye manuas.

If they want t improve safety they should start with brakes, handling and abysmal lack of power.
Also, it would not hurt to mention to their customers that AWD serves only to go forward but not to stop. Every time there is snow and I see Subaru behind I actually speed up just in case, because probability that it has worn out all season tires is like 99%.
 
Originally Posted By: Cujet
I’ll keep this review short.

0-60 in 11.2 seconds. This thing is slow. Don’t believe the magazine tests which claim 8 seconds. That’s a lie!! It’s near the danger slow range. Passing is something this car can’t do well.

Fuel economy was pen n paper calculated at 30 in mostly highway driving. Rather poor city mpg at under 20.

Engine is a boxer 4cyl, 2.5L and has a most wonderful growl. Despite the utter lack of power.

Car was otherwise perfect. Comfy, drove well, solid feeling, good driving dynamics and a true pleasure for the week.

If you are considering one, get the flat six cylinder version. Night and day difference in driving satisfaction.

I have driven my fathers (2.5)and found acceleration to be way more than sufficient, no problem passing or romping on it to enter the freeway and he never had an issue with his up to this point. Average MPG in city is 27 and highway is 34, can't complain about that. A poor review in my opinion.
 
Last edited:
Were you at an extreme elevation to get that slow of a 0-60 out of it? I was towing my camper and it was loaded with camping gear, as was the Forester itself and I definitely got to 60 quicker than 11 seconds


Originally Posted By: edyvw
Quote:
They are really playing the safety game hard. There are safety reason that they can't have eyesight on a manual transmission. So good bye manuas.


Also, it would not hurt to mention to their customers that AWD serves only to go forward but not to stop. Every time there is snow and I see Subaru behind I actually speed up just in case, because probability that it has worn out all season tires is like 99%.


I agree there. Their AWD system is great at getting you moving faster than you can stop in slippery conditions.
 
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