Stupid Haynes guide

[Stelth]

OK, although I may have made a tongue-in-cheek post recently, I'm serious about this. I recently changed the head gasket on my daughter's 2003 Hyundai Elantra. As you may (or may not) remember, the "mechanic" that did this job twice already hosed it both times. I'll post an update soon with pics.

Anyway, when I started it up, it ran OK at first, and then started missing really bad. I checked all my vacuum hoses, wires, etc, and everything looked good. I had just put new Autolite Double Platinum plugs in it, so I didn't think I had spark plug problems. I also charged up the battery in case it was low.

Then I thought, "What if the timing belt is off one notch?" So I took the cover off and looked. The Haynes guide says to line up a notch in the cam sprocket with the top of the cylinder head. Seems a little imprecise, but that's what I thought I had done. It looked to me like it could be off a tooth, so I moved it one tooth. Now it ran even worse.

Enter the internet. I googled "Hyundai timing belt," and was inundated with information. The most useful thing I found was that this cam sprocket has a hole in it that lines up with a notch in the head at TDC. Voila. So I went back and put the crank pulley on its TDC notch, and lined up the hole and notch on the sprocket and head.

Now it runs perfect. I searched my Haynes guide, but this information is not in there. I think the other method works with earlier engines, but not with this one.

 

[The_Jeff]

Yeah they're really terrible. I had one tell me to increase engine speed to 200 RPM.

 

[river_rat]

User error. You are supposed to buy them so you feel prepared...not actually try to use them.

 

[glum]

I prefer Bentley but they don't make them for my Hyundai. And they cost a fortune (~$100).

I have a Chilton manual for my Sonata. Lots of misprints. Some pages in the index are wrong, some torque specs are wrong (owie!). Makes me nervous to rely on it, but I don't have anything better.

None are perfect, of course.

 

[simple_gifts]

I have a factory Yota manual for my !echo!; Worth twice the $157 I paid for it. Have saved hundreds in repairs and hours of labor time. Obviously a big expense to a lot of people, but if a factory manual could have avoided the above debacle...

 

[fdcg27]

Back in the day (like thirty years back), Haynes manuals were really good.
I had one for the '76 Civic my future wife had, and one for the '76 MGB I had, and still have.
Theye were quite useful in keeping both cars running, although the MG needed a lot more effort to keep running than did the Civic.
The Haynes for the MGB even included many pages on rebuilding the rare automatic, whch was available for a few years, although I have never seen one.
More recent Haynes manuals seem pretty useless.
If you want a good service and repair manual, bite the bullet and spring for a factory manual.
I had them for my old Vanagon as well as our '86 Civics, and there was no better source of diagnostic and repair information.
OTOH, modern cars need so little beyond timing belt (hint, make your own timing marks before removal), clutch, CV joints and brakes that a manual is something you can live without.
ODB II also makes most diagnostics much easier.
Plus, there is a wealth of knowledge available from various sites, not available to the DIY guy only a few years back.

 

[The_Jeff]

The one nice thing about Haynes is they show photographs of fasteners with ~40k of road grime on them. Many factory manuals I've seen show line drawings where it's harder for me to get the scale.

Naturally it would be nice to have both.

Haynes and chiltons also better describe how to rig something instead of using a special tool. FSMs just call for tool ABCD1234 and off with your head if your shop doesn't have one.

 

[Ursae_Majoris]

You can register at http://hmaservice.com/ and have a free access to the full Factory Service Manual, TSBs, etc.
Kia has the same service(kiatechinfo.com), and I've used it several times.

 

[glum]

I have used hmaservice.com, but it's not the same as having a manual in hand. I find it a hassle finding info on there. It's not really a "full factory service manual" (i.e. not the same as a Chilton/Haynes), though I have found individual procedures spelled out.

 

[Stelth]

Originally Posted By: Ursae_Majoris
You can register at http://hmaservice.com/ and have a free access to the full Factory Service Manual, TSBs, etc.
Kia has the same service(kiatechinfo.com), and I've used it several times.


You know, I did that, filled out the online form, etc., and I never got the email with the login info. Actually I think I tried to register at least three times. The website told me I had successfully registered and would get an email soon, but I never did.

 

[GMBoy]

There is nothing better than the OEM factory service manual.

I don't think Hanes or Chilton are worth the time. Too many spec errors and misinformation because they cover a wide ranged of model years whereas the OEM book covers just ONE model year and is more accurate. Is your time and labor worth the price difference?? No it isn't.

 

[onion]

Haynes manuals are useless. Chiltons' are only slightly better. Decades ago they were both very good, but that's no longer the case.

I've managed to find good deals on Ebay on the factory service manuals for my last three cars (1994 Chevy Corsica, 2001 Chevy Lumina, 2004 Honda Accord)- all for very reasonable prices ($24, $55, and $28, respectively).

To say that these manuals are detailed doesn't really do them justice. They show every wire, every bolt, every code. They have helpful sections that show wiring harness routing, component locations, even part numbers for wiring connectors. Not to mention troubleshooting charts. And vehicle-specific air conditioning pressure charts. And enough mechanical detail that I could completely rebuild the engine and/or transmission if I was so inclined. They generally pay for themselves with the first repair.

 

[bigmike]

I had a Chilton's manual give me wrong torque specs. I was stupid enough to follow it when tightening camshaft bolts. Broke 3 bolts before I clued myself in - I was a pretty stubborn idiot back then.

 

[SLCraig]

The Haynes manual is only good (and not even that good) at being toilet paper. I had one for my Saturn. I could almost never find what I was looking for in it. They are just terrible.

 

[mechtech2]

Those manuals can be really weak/lame.
The notch advice was probably correct, and you went the wrong way .

 

[glum]

Just found a CD-based Hyundai factory manual on eBay for a surprisingly low price (under $30). Some were selling questionable PDF versions for $6 or less, but they didn't seem legitimate.

 

[onion]

Originally Posted By: glum
Just found a CD-based Hyundai factory manual on eBay for a surprisingly low price (under $30). Some were selling questionable PDF versions for $6 or less, but they didn't seem legitimate.


I'll be interested to hear how that works out. I've seen manuals like the on ebay pretty regularly, but always had my doubts. Maybe it's just a ripped-off copy?

 

[flacoman]

And the famous : "Assembly is the reverse of dissassembly"

 

[Merkava_4]

That's why I like ALLDATA because the information is taken directly word
for word from the factory service manual. It's the same exact information.

 

[tonycarguy]

For my first couple of cars, I could only afford Haynes manuals. I wouldn't say they were totally useless -- for basic things like changing shocks, brakes, cap/rotor, ATF and the trans filter, it was ok.

But there's one thing they taught me. When it comes to working on cars, everything in practice is 10x harder than it appears in the manual