My Honda didn't come with one either, but I was smart enough to put one on it.
STP 30K intervals
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Originally Posted By: FZ1
My Honda didn't come with a FM "installed by the factory",so I don't need a FM to tell me when to change my filter. I have an owners manual and my driving experience,in the Lone Star State, to tell me when to change the AF.
I would wonder how "experience" would lead you to determine the FCI? Did you experiment by running the filter until the engine quit running and then record the miles driven, then base the FCI on that? Or what? I can't think of many objective ways to do it.. without a restriction gauge.
I'm pressing this because your position is totally non-understandable. You are arguing AGAINST knowledge and data. The OEM FCI is a safe benchmark, LACKING ANY OTHERS. Not being able to afford or simply not wanting to spend the money on a restriction gauge is one thing, but arguing against the principle of using one is nonsensical... especially since your OEM probably used one in the determination of the FCI in the first place.
Where the OEM FCI info is questionable is their averaging. They have to cover everything from the best to the worst driving situations. From there you, as an individual owner, have to evaluate how your particular situation compares to the average and adjust the FCI to suit. That's where the restriction gauge allows you to fine tune. Heck, via restriction gauges, some people find the OEM FCI is too LONG. Ask 'ol Widman out there in Bolivia (he's a notable BITOG member)! So far, though, the majority of the info I've seen leads to the conclusion that the OEM FCI are a bit conservative in the majority of cases.
As I said, there's nothing wrong with using the FCI as a guide. It just makes no sense to argue against restriction gauges on principle.
My Honda didn't come with a FM "installed by the factory",so I don't need a FM to tell me when to change my filter. I have an owners manual and my driving experience,in the Lone Star State, to tell me when to change the AF.
I would wonder how "experience" would lead you to determine the FCI? Did you experiment by running the filter until the engine quit running and then record the miles driven, then base the FCI on that? Or what? I can't think of many objective ways to do it.. without a restriction gauge.
I'm pressing this because your position is totally non-understandable. You are arguing AGAINST knowledge and data. The OEM FCI is a safe benchmark, LACKING ANY OTHERS. Not being able to afford or simply not wanting to spend the money on a restriction gauge is one thing, but arguing against the principle of using one is nonsensical... especially since your OEM probably used one in the determination of the FCI in the first place.
Where the OEM FCI info is questionable is their averaging. They have to cover everything from the best to the worst driving situations. From there you, as an individual owner, have to evaluate how your particular situation compares to the average and adjust the FCI to suit. That's where the restriction gauge allows you to fine tune. Heck, via restriction gauges, some people find the OEM FCI is too LONG. Ask 'ol Widman out there in Bolivia (he's a notable BITOG member)! So far, though, the majority of the info I've seen leads to the conclusion that the OEM FCI are a bit conservative in the majority of cases.
As I said, there's nothing wrong with using the FCI as a guide. It just makes no sense to argue against restriction gauges on principle.
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
I can't think of many objective ways to do it.. without a restriction gauge.
In theory it would be possible to compare MAF at peak HP RPM (at full throttle with a gasser) with an OBD scanner, but a lot of other parameters would have to be matched during each test.
Better to just measure directly with a "toy".
I can't think of many objective ways to do it.. without a restriction gauge.
In theory it would be possible to compare MAF at peak HP RPM (at full throttle with a gasser) with an OBD scanner, but a lot of other parameters would have to be matched during each test.
Better to just measure directly with a "toy".
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Not unlearnable. Unconvinced. I'm,simply,not going to punch a hole in my air intake system and put some $25. generic guage in the hole and count on it to tell me when my,specifically engineered,AF needs to be changed. I run my AF to the Owner's manual recommendation and change it. I examine the old AF,install a new oem AF,and,if my engine is more responsive with the new AF,then I run a shorter interval and repeat. I'm not trying to maximize my $1 a month AF cost:I'm maximizing the life of my engine. Simpler is,usually, better. You are adding variables,and psuedo science,to a simple thing. Jmo.
How do you tell if the engine is more responsive? Butt dyno? Talk about pseudo science....
Originally Posted By: FZ1
You can feel the difference,if,any.Do what you want,I just prefer the simple method with no add ons. If I change the AF early,so what. It's only $1 per month.
I made the same argument but under stand what Jim is saying. It not about saving money.
You can feel the difference,if,any.Do what you want,I just prefer the simple method with no add ons. If I change the AF early,so what. It's only $1 per month.
I made the same argument but under stand what Jim is saying. It not about saving money.
Originally Posted By: FZ1
I understand,I just don't agree that a fm is necessary to maximize the life of my engine. How did you get this far without one?
I see your point - a FM is just TMI.
It's better simply not to know.
So ... lose the oil pressure gauge - after all, when was the last time that helped with any oil maintenance issue, right? And since not all cars have one, how do all those people get along without one?
Lose the coolant temp gauge, transmission temp gauge, TPMS (I really would like to lose this one - annoying), voltmeter ... you get the idea.
Blindly follow the OM and sing along with me, "Everything is beautiful ..."
I understand,I just don't agree that a fm is necessary to maximize the life of my engine. How did you get this far without one?
I see your point - a FM is just TMI.
It's better simply not to know.
So ... lose the oil pressure gauge - after all, when was the last time that helped with any oil maintenance issue, right? And since not all cars have one, how do all those people get along without one?
Lose the coolant temp gauge, transmission temp gauge, TPMS (I really would like to lose this one - annoying), voltmeter ... you get the idea.
Blindly follow the OM and sing along with me, "Everything is beautiful ..."
Nope you didn't. But the analogy is a simple one.
My service vans have factory installed FM's. What does that say?
The point is everything JA has related is true and backed up, it's not just opinion.
And remember I am always the first one to defend your right to do whatever you want because it is YOUR car. Just don't lecture the forum on well discussed and proven topics.
My service vans have factory installed FM's. What does that say?
The point is everything JA has related is true and backed up, it's not just opinion.
And remember I am always the first one to defend your right to do whatever you want because it is YOUR car. Just don't lecture the forum on well discussed and proven topics.
I'm not lecturing,anybody. I,simply,presented a different(Mainstream)point of view and labelled it as such. Actually,my pov is the way 99.9% of everyday,non commercial,drivers monitor the afci in their daily drivers. Haven't seen alot of catastrophic engine failures due to the af being changed too often. Have you?
Actually my guess would be most people allow the Jiffy lube to change the AF whenever it is needed (every oil change), if at all.
No, I disagree.
Yes, your actions in changing the filter at the OE mileage may be that of the majority of the motoring public, but your POV is not. You know and presumably understand the technology and choose not to avail yourself of it... unlike that 99% that barely know what an air filter looks like.
On top of that, you chose to post on this thread and disparage the technology by calling the FM a "toy" and being generally dismissive of the equipment and of anyone who uses it. That is your priviledge, of course, but don't do it an not expect a little pushback. If you had said, "Oh, I don't care. I'll just change it at 30K," we be talking about other things by now... but that's not how you presented your opinion.
Yes, your actions in changing the filter at the OE mileage may be that of the majority of the motoring public, but your POV is not. You know and presumably understand the technology and choose not to avail yourself of it... unlike that 99% that barely know what an air filter looks like.
On top of that, you chose to post on this thread and disparage the technology by calling the FM a "toy" and being generally dismissive of the equipment and of anyone who uses it. That is your priviledge, of course, but don't do it an not expect a little pushback. If you had said, "Oh, I don't care. I'll just change it at 30K," we be talking about other things by now... but that's not how you presented your opinion.
Originally Posted By: FZ1
Sorry,my comments were not intended to be taken,personally.
It's OK, I didn't take your comments, seriously.
Sorry,my comments were not intended to be taken,personally.
It's OK, I didn't take your comments, seriously.
Can't we all get along, lol.
Originally Posted By: ARB1977
Can't we all get along, lol.
Kumbaya, mutha.... ( : < ) (picture Bruce Willis saying that)!
I guess the important question to ask, since you are the OP, is did you get your question answered or gain something from the discussion? We did get off track a little, though remarkably germain to your question in the sense of determining FCIs.
Can't we all get along, lol.
Kumbaya, mutha.... ( : < ) (picture Bruce Willis saying that)!
I guess the important question to ask, since you are the OP, is did you get your question answered or gain something from the discussion? We did get off track a little, though remarkably germain to your question in the sense of determining FCIs.
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Originally Posted By: ARB1977
Can't we all get along, lol.
Kumbaya, mutha.... ( : < ) (picture Bruce Willis saying that)!
I guess the important question to ask, since you are the OP, is did you get your question answered or gain something from the discussion? We did get off track a little, though remarkably germain to your question in the sense of determining FCIs.
Oh yeah, way back in the beginning of this thread. At some point I'll get one. I did replace the filter with a factory one but will get a minder later.
Originally Posted By: ARB1977
Can't we all get along, lol.
Kumbaya, mutha.... ( : < ) (picture Bruce Willis saying that)!
I guess the important question to ask, since you are the OP, is did you get your question answered or gain something from the discussion? We did get off track a little, though remarkably germain to your question in the sense of determining FCIs.
Oh yeah, way back in the beginning of this thread. At some point I'll get one. I did replace the filter with a factory one but will get a minder later.
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