Steering problem

[Jimmy9190]

Long story short..In have a 2001 Dodge Dakota, 2 wheel drive, manual transmission and V6 engine. It has a bump/clunk type noise in the front end that I can not get rid of. It only happens when backing up and turning the steering wheel nearly all the way in either direction, like when I back out to the left or right coming out of a parking space or a driveway.

I replaced the stabilizer bar bushings, that did not fix it. I replaced the upper ball joints last week (I did the lowers in January) and while that helped a lot on the steering and handling of the truck, the clunk is still there in reverse with the wheel turned to one direction or the other. I thought the new ball joints fixed it because the noise was gone after I replaced them, but it is back today.

The noise only happens one time, as soon as I crank the wheel to back out to the left or right. In forward motion there is no noise at all, no loose steering or any other problems. The new ball joints made the truck steer like brand new. The old ball joints were completely shot, but even before I replaced the upper ball joints the truck still steered fine, it was not loose or wandering or anything.

I wonder if this noise is from a loose inner tie rod. Outer tie rods were replaced 60,000 miles ago and the inners are original. I checked the tie rods when I did the upper ball joints and found no looseness or play but I don't know what else to look for on tie rods. Is an inner tie rod supposed to be stiff and stick out straight from the steering rack when you take it off the steering knuckle, or is it still OK if it drops down when you unbolt it? Both of mine dropped down like that.

Any ideas of what else to look for and info on how to thoroughly check tie rods? Would a bad control arm bushing cause this bump-clunk noise? I don't know what else to look for here.

Thanks for any help.

 

[millerbl00]

It might be hitting the steering stop. Some cars make a noise. Might be normal.

 

[brandini]

Tie rod bushings have made similar noises on a few past cars of mine, inner ones especially.

EDIT: Just saw about tie rods, They're supposed to fit snug, look for the two-piece poly replacements and you'll be really happy after replacing them!

 

[willix]

If the upper ball joints were shot, other parts are surely warn. Lower ball joints usually wear out first. All rubber bushings would be suspect I'd start with the lower control arms. could be this- http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/proble...mp;summary=true

 

[Jimmy9190]

Thanks for the help and the recall info. My hubs are original and make no noise at all. Wheel is tight and has no play when mounted on the hub/axle. There is no noise or grinding sounds that would be indicative of a bad hub/wheel bearing either.

I am thinking it may be the inner tie rods since the noise only happens when turning in reverse. New inner tie rods don't cost much and at 130,000 probably need to be replaced anyway. Plus I still have a 3 year alignment policy that does not expire until November if it needs realigned afterward.

Thanks for the help here.

 

[mechtech2]

Could be the steering rack shifting in it's mounts.

 

[UNC017]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Could be the steering rack shifting in it's mounts.


Agreed. Tthe rack bushings could be getting worn and sloppy, or the rack mounting bolts might be loose for some reason.

It could also be internal to the rack itself- fortunately R&Ring the rack is a super easy job on a Dakota.

 

[Jimmy9190]

Thanks, I will check the steering rack and its bushings too as soon as I can. As far as I know it's not loose, I was under the truck for 4 hours last Friday replacing the ball joints and didn't notice anything being loose there.

Thanks for the help.

 

[UNC017]

Originally Posted By: Jimmy9190
Thanks, I will check the steering rack and its bushings too as soon as I can. As far as I know it's not loose, I was under the truck for 4 hours last Friday replacing the ball joints and didn't notice anything being loose there.

Thanks for the help.



It helps to have someone sit in the cab (engine off, brake SET, etc.) and saw the wheel back and forth while you watch everything under the truck. They'll have to "saw" pretty hard since the power steering won't be helping, but my daughter could do it fine when she was 12. Had a great time, too

You can sometimes spot things moving that shouldn't be moving that way when all else fails

 

[Jimmy9190]

Thanks. The noise is intermittent. Didn't do it yesterday morning, but did it as I left work in the afternoon. I made a couple of stops after work, I heard no noise when backing out to leave. Didn't hear it this morning either. When I do hear it, it is pretty loud. Louder now than when it started 2 weeks ago.

I may just replace the inner tie rod ends anyway. If the upper and lower ball joints were bad, I figure chances are pretty good the inner tie rods are bad too. They only cost about $22.00 each anyway. I will try to spray the control arm bushings with silicone and see if I can lube them up too and see if the noise returns after that.

Thanks for the help here. This is an intermittent problem that is hard to duplicate but I will keep after it until I get it fixed. Steering/suspension is a definite big time safety concern and I want to fix it asap.

Any other ideas are very much appreciated here. Thanks.

 

[mechtech2]

Well, the old test of wiggling the steering wheel back and forth rapidly 2 inches while someone else looks underneath the car still is one of the best tests.
The engine does not need to be on.

 

[Jimmy9190]

I may have found the problem. With the wheels on the ground, ignition off I had my girlfriend move the steering wheel back and forth a couple inches, kind of fast and then kind of slow. I could hear something sounded like a grinding noise under the front end, got under there and grabbed the bellows boot on the inner tie rod. On the left one, as she was sawing the wheel back and forth I squeezed the end of the bellows on the inner tie rod where it mates up to the steering rack. Something is definitely moving in there that should not be. When I squeezed the right side bellows boot in the same spot, I didn't feel any movement at all like the left side.

The noise is a lot more audible on the left side too when I was under there. Right side seemed very quiet. Does anyone think I may be on the right track in thinking I need new inner tie rods?

I appreciate the help here. It is frustrating not knowing what to look for to isolate the problem.

 

[Jimmy9190]

An update...No, I didn't find the problem. I put new inner tie rods on my truck today and they did not cure the clunk noise. It's not as loud as before but is still there. The old inner tie rods were pretty loose and the truck steers better now though so it was probably time or would have been time soon to replace the tie rods anyway.

After I did the tie rods today I took my truck to Tire Kingdom where I have a 3 year alignment policy that is still good until November and they realigned it for me. Tire Kingdom couldn't find anything that would cause the clunk noise either, said the whole front end was tight and in great shape.

So I am through trying to find the clunk. I don't know where it is coming from and unless it gets worse or some other clunk-related problem comes up I am not going to worry about it. It only happens once, when I am backing out of my driveway or a parking space, and it is intermittent, does not happen all the time. At 130,000 miles there are bound to be some noises or other things going on. I guess just about every car and truck out there has some kind of quirk or problem that is annoying but doesn't affect driveability or safety. This clunk noise is mine. It may be related somehow to the accident I had back in March, I don't know. Unless it gets worse I am not going to worry about it anymore. I know my truck is safe to drive and in good shape otherwise.

Thanks for all the help here.

 

[The_Eric]

Do you suppose it could be a spring binding a little bit and popping loose?

 

[Jimmy9190]

No, the springs are OK. I have no idea what causes this noise and neither do the techs at the tire store. I have either replaced or fixed all the important steering parts on my truck and it drives and steers like brand new. The only problem is the little intermitent single pop noise when in reverse. I am done worrying about it. I will leave it alone unless it gets worse or something else happens.

 

[mechtech2]

The steering wheel wiggle testis primarily to test for stuff that is NOT moving when it should [like a loose tie rod end].
But it can show stuff like a loose rack.