JHZR2
Staff member
We went to see it on the 5th in Philadelphia.
They put on a nice event.
They put on a nice event.
Steam engine Big Boy #4014
- Thread starter Reggaemon
- Start date
I couldn't make its first pass last month but is coming back through on the 17th. Planning on seeing it since it's passing close by.
I love this:
I know wood is very strong in compression but boy does that ever give off a 'that'll do' vibe...or maybe they're steel, either way I chuckle at that keeping that giant chunk of rolling iron in place.
I know wood is very strong in compression but boy does that ever give off a 'that'll do' vibe...or maybe they're steel, either way I chuckle at that keeping that giant chunk of rolling iron in place.
The reason they use the Diesel electric locomotive to assist in starting out, is because large, heavy steam locomotives like the "Big Boy" are notoriously hard on the tracks when getting the train initially moving. (It weighs close to 1.2 million pounds).
The "Big Boy's" massive uneven reciprocating weight exemplified this to the point it was possible to twist and bend the tracks underneath it. By utilizing the much smoother and even power distribution delivered by the Diesel electric "helper" locomotive, this track stress was greatly reduced.
This made for far less stress on the tracks when the big monster was starting out. Also by the Diesel electric "helping out" during startup, it greatly reduces the stress on the drive components of the Big Boy itself.... Millions were spent restoring it.
I was hoping it would come to L.I.
The cylinders on both sides of a steam locomotive are intentionally out of phase. This is necessary so that one side is in the middle of a power stroke while the other one is at dead center. Though the wheels do have a solid shaft between them there is still going to be a lot of alternating side to side force on the rails unlike an electric motor which would pull evenly.
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It goes past here on the 20th. The stop is six miles from my house but I could hike a mile to watch it go by.
The technical discussion is really neat. I never imagined that the power pulses would stress the tracks. That must be an impressive sight and sound to enjoy. I will have to travel to see the 4014…
I took a day off work and chased it through central Illinois is 2024.
It's taking a different route and I've debated about going to see it at the end of this week, when it's coming through here again. As great as it is to see, the Big Boy draws crowds like nothing else rail related these days, and I don't know if I'm up to fighting that.
When Ed Dickens took over as head/lead engineer of the steam program, it was pretty clear getting a Big Boy operational was one of his top goals-at the time UP had 4-8-4 #844, the only steam engine in the US to have never been officially retired from a class 1 railroad, and Challenger 3985. 3985 had been run hard and when it went down for its FRA 1472, it needed enough work that Ed basically saw his chance to restore a Big Boy for not a lot more and then in return "retire" 3985 again(a museum is close to getting it operational). Even 10 years ago, people I know who are plugged into the rail industry, including one guy who had fired 844 and 3985, were dismissive and insisted that a Big Boy would ever run again.
As far as the diesels in the consist-the Big Boy is certainly capable of pulling the UP Executive train alone without any help from anything else. Steam, in general though, doesn't start trains as well as diesel(although steam can generally outpull a similarly rated diesel once started). Large driver engines like the Big Boy can be "slippery" when starting.
Steam has historically gotten around the starting problem by sanding the rails. The Big Boy is clearly Ed's baby(understandably), and even though UP no doubt knows that 4014 has brought them more good publicity than pretty much anything else they had done could have, Ed still has to be a good steward of the money he's provided if the steam program is to continue(plus at this point 844 hasn't been steamed in 7 years, and I don't know when its 1472 is out but it has to be soon and apparently needs some work to really go back into full service). Sanding tears up the tires, and with what 16 of them would cost at the next overhaul, I don't think he's inclined to put any more wear on them than need be(C&O 614 is currently getting new tires-without digging into details I suspect they're similar in spec to what's on the Big Boy, although only 8 of them rather than 16, and the cost for that was eye-watering). If using a bit of diesel power to help start keeps the Big Boy on the rails, I'm okay with it.
The other big side of it is that diesels have dynamic braking, and steam does not. Ed uses the diesels A LOT for this. Not that any steam parts are exactly off the shelf parts these days, but from what I understand a Big Boy brake shoe(again, 16 of them...) is orders of magnitude more expensive than for, say, Nickel Plate 765.
It's interesting to see too in all of this that Reading and Northern isn't shy about thrashing the heck out of T1 2102, and it was interesting to see 2012 and 4014 running side by side. If there was anything in this east coast tour I would have loved to have been able to go and do, that would have been it. There's really no contest between the two-in a way the Big Boy is almost like having two Reading T1s pulling a train. The numbers bear that out-starting tractive effort for a T1 is 68,000 lbf, and the Big Boy is 135,000. Horsepower isn't as different as I might have thought-the T1s are 5500hp and 4014 is 6290hp. I can't, without doing more digging than I care to do this morning, find the speed for peak horsepower for the T1, while for the Big Boy it's at 41mph. I'd not be surprised, though, that given the MUCH larger cylinders of the T1(27x32, vs 23x32 for Big Boy) and lower boiler pressure(240psi vs. 300psi), if T1s make peak horsepower at more like 15-20mph. That's not a "recipe" for the T1 to make power at higher speeds(I'm also not easily finding firebox area or superheater area for the T1, both of which factor into the speed for peak horsepower). Still, though, Reading and Northern sends 2102 out solo to pull freight sometimes, and not small amounts of freight-having an operating booster, the only one currently out there, ups the starting tractive effort quite a bit.
Steam is fun, though, and at least now it's an exciting time to follow because we're seeing what I'd consider something of a steam renaissance. Within the past decade, we've seen not only a Big Boy return to operation but also C&O 1309, the only true Mallet that has operated in my lifetime. When UP 3985 is finished, which is supposed to be in the next couple of years, we'll have 3 operating articulateds, and 10 years ago with 3985 down and 4014 only starting restoration, there were none. There are a lot of in-progress restorations, plus even one new construction.
It's taking a different route and I've debated about going to see it at the end of this week, when it's coming through here again. As great as it is to see, the Big Boy draws crowds like nothing else rail related these days, and I don't know if I'm up to fighting that.
When Ed Dickens took over as head/lead engineer of the steam program, it was pretty clear getting a Big Boy operational was one of his top goals-at the time UP had 4-8-4 #844, the only steam engine in the US to have never been officially retired from a class 1 railroad, and Challenger 3985. 3985 had been run hard and when it went down for its FRA 1472, it needed enough work that Ed basically saw his chance to restore a Big Boy for not a lot more and then in return "retire" 3985 again(a museum is close to getting it operational). Even 10 years ago, people I know who are plugged into the rail industry, including one guy who had fired 844 and 3985, were dismissive and insisted that a Big Boy would ever run again.
As far as the diesels in the consist-the Big Boy is certainly capable of pulling the UP Executive train alone without any help from anything else. Steam, in general though, doesn't start trains as well as diesel(although steam can generally outpull a similarly rated diesel once started). Large driver engines like the Big Boy can be "slippery" when starting.
Steam has historically gotten around the starting problem by sanding the rails. The Big Boy is clearly Ed's baby(understandably), and even though UP no doubt knows that 4014 has brought them more good publicity than pretty much anything else they had done could have, Ed still has to be a good steward of the money he's provided if the steam program is to continue(plus at this point 844 hasn't been steamed in 7 years, and I don't know when its 1472 is out but it has to be soon and apparently needs some work to really go back into full service). Sanding tears up the tires, and with what 16 of them would cost at the next overhaul, I don't think he's inclined to put any more wear on them than need be(C&O 614 is currently getting new tires-without digging into details I suspect they're similar in spec to what's on the Big Boy, although only 8 of them rather than 16, and the cost for that was eye-watering). If using a bit of diesel power to help start keeps the Big Boy on the rails, I'm okay with it.
The other big side of it is that diesels have dynamic braking, and steam does not. Ed uses the diesels A LOT for this. Not that any steam parts are exactly off the shelf parts these days, but from what I understand a Big Boy brake shoe(again, 16 of them...) is orders of magnitude more expensive than for, say, Nickel Plate 765.
It's interesting to see too in all of this that Reading and Northern isn't shy about thrashing the heck out of T1 2102, and it was interesting to see 2012 and 4014 running side by side. If there was anything in this east coast tour I would have loved to have been able to go and do, that would have been it. There's really no contest between the two-in a way the Big Boy is almost like having two Reading T1s pulling a train. The numbers bear that out-starting tractive effort for a T1 is 68,000 lbf, and the Big Boy is 135,000. Horsepower isn't as different as I might have thought-the T1s are 5500hp and 4014 is 6290hp. I can't, without doing more digging than I care to do this morning, find the speed for peak horsepower for the T1, while for the Big Boy it's at 41mph. I'd not be surprised, though, that given the MUCH larger cylinders of the T1(27x32, vs 23x32 for Big Boy) and lower boiler pressure(240psi vs. 300psi), if T1s make peak horsepower at more like 15-20mph. That's not a "recipe" for the T1 to make power at higher speeds(I'm also not easily finding firebox area or superheater area for the T1, both of which factor into the speed for peak horsepower). Still, though, Reading and Northern sends 2102 out solo to pull freight sometimes, and not small amounts of freight-having an operating booster, the only one currently out there, ups the starting tractive effort quite a bit.
Steam is fun, though, and at least now it's an exciting time to follow because we're seeing what I'd consider something of a steam renaissance. Within the past decade, we've seen not only a Big Boy return to operation but also C&O 1309, the only true Mallet that has operated in my lifetime. When UP 3985 is finished, which is supposed to be in the next couple of years, we'll have 3 operating articulateds, and 10 years ago with 3985 down and 4014 only starting restoration, there were none. There are a lot of in-progress restorations, plus even one new construction.
New Ringgold, PA July 2nd.
I had planned a visit to see it in Fostoria OH, along with a few days of railfanning in that prime viewing town, but the folks I was going to go with had to change plans so I bagged the trip. Would love to see it at Horseshoe Curve too. Someday.
Wonder why it doesn't sport the scribbled chalk name "Big Boy" on the smokebox for this trip.
Wonder why it doesn't sport the scribbled chalk name "Big Boy" on the smokebox for this trip.
Something kind of interesting, or at least I think...
Allowed axle loadings on most railroads are a lot higher now than they were in the steam days, but there have been few improvements in the quality of trackwork and in some cases it's actually worse than it was 1950s. There's still rail out there in use that's 50+ years old. Nearly all of the rail bridges out there are from the steam era, with only just enough work to keep them serviceable.
The rule of thumb I've heard is that steam era rail was designed to support 4x the maximum allowed axle loading of the line to account for how rough steam could be on the rails. Of course a lot of "modern"(1940s-1950s) steam was a lot easier on the rail than older steam especially on modern high speed designs like the N&W J Class(which had/has some of the best balanced running gear made combined with lightweight rods) but a lot of older steam hung around to the very end.
When railroads fully dieselized, they realized they could safely up their axle loadings without making many if any changes in their track work.
Working upgrade at Hauto, PA on July 2nd.
Looks like from this photo, the name was re-chalked back on. Very cool.
That looks like Oakley Kansas. I recognize the depot.
CleanSump
Site Donor 2026
One of my nephews recently retired from being a track inspector on a repair crew. He was always away from home travelling the country because the tracks alway need work. He had pictures of long sections out west of straight runs that looked like snakes due to heat.
Yet another reason the Diesel electric locomotives are employed to help get the Big Boy started rolling, is to help prevent wheel slip. In a locomotive that weighs 1.2 million pounds, even a slight amount of wheel slip can destroy the track almost instantaneously.
Like most all locomotives, the Big Boy has the ability to drop sand, but it is much harder to control wheel slip when compared to modern Diesel electric locomotives, that have electronic torque sensors that can predict it, and automatically make power adjustments to help prevent it. Especially when the locomotive is coming near it's tractive force limits.
This damage was obviously not made by a Big Boy. But it shows just how badly this damage can occur.
Like most all locomotives, the Big Boy has the ability to drop sand, but it is much harder to control wheel slip when compared to modern Diesel electric locomotives, that have electronic torque sensors that can predict it, and automatically make power adjustments to help prevent it. Especially when the locomotive is coming near it's tractive force limits.
This damage was obviously not made by a Big Boy. But it shows just how badly this damage can occur.
CleanSump
Site Donor 2026
That's why they had sand dispensers on them - to increase friction.
Yep!
