SSD Life

[y_p_w]

All I'm saying is that I will determine if the Firefox update changes the rate of life reduction on this SSD. I've tracked the Crystal Disk info once a week for over a year. When the SSD % life goes down 1% every 2 months (6% in a year), it just seems like the SSD life % reduction rate is too high from just mainly using this laptop for surfing the web with Firefox and saving some files. Maybe it's all due to Windows 10 writing a bunch of stuff in the background. I can see writing to the SSD going on in Task Manager when the computer is just sitting with me doing absolutely nothing with it. What's writing to the SSD in the background all the time? Like said, when I close Firefox I see some of that idle writing stop.

I'm just thinking that the tool you're using might have some sort of model for wear level that might not match that of what the manufacturer would think. If there are a lot of cycles that just go to the SLC cache while rarely writing to the main flash, there may not really be a problem.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I'm just thinking that the tool you're using might have some sort of model for wear level that might not match that of what the manufacturer would think. If there are a lot of cycles that just go to the SLC cache while rarely writing to the main flash, there may not really be a problem.

Don't know ... the manufacture of the SSD doesn't have a tool to monitor it from what I've tried to find. I'm using Crystal Disk Info which I would think could determine the read/writes and life of most any SSD out there.

 

[y_p_w]

Don't know ... the manufacture of the SSD doesn't have a tool to monitor it from what I've tried to find. I'm using Crystal Disk Info which I would think could determine the read/writes and life of most any SSD out there.

I guess it depends on the SSD. I did find that many tools just access the S.M.A.R.T. status that might include the manufacturer's definition of wear level. I don't really use it for much else, but I do have a tool on my Mac called Disk Drill. It has a basic extension where I can look up all sorts of things including uptime, power cycle count, and wear level. I've had this same SSD for nearly 4 years and it's listed as 100% wear level with more than 10,000 hours.

But I mentioned using an SLC cache combined with a TLC/QLC main area. I've been reading some on this and some setups move around the SLC cache so as to spread the wear rather than reserve a specific section for the SLC cache.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I guess it depends on the SSD. I did find that many tools just access the S.M.A.R.T. status that might include the manufacturer's definition of wear level. I don't really use it for much else, but I do have a tool on my Mac called Disk Drill. It has a basic extension where I can look up all sorts of things including uptime, power cycle count, and wear level. I've had this same SSD for nearly 4 years and it's listed as 100% wear level with more than 10,000 hours.

But I mentioned using an SLC cache combined with a TLC/QLC main area. I've been reading some on this and some setups move around the SLC cache so as to spread the wear rather than reserve a specific section for the SLC cache.

Re: bold text in your post. Still at 100% life with 10,000 hours on it ... that seems surprising unless it's some super-duper high end SSD, and/or a gigantic sized SSD to minimize "write wear".

Here's a snap shot of Crystal Disk Info on my Lite-On model CL1-3D512-Q11 NVMe SSD right now. Says the SSD is at 86% life.

 

[y_p_w]

Re: bold text in your post. Still at 100% life with 10,000 hours on it ... that seems surprising unless it's some super-duper high end SSD, and/or a gigantic sized SSD to minimize "write wear".

Here's a snap shot of Crystal Disk Info on my Lite-On model CL1-3D512-Q11 NVMe SSD right now. Says the SSD is at 86% life.

View attachment 156441

Not really. Mine is a WD Blue 1 TB SATA SSD that I got maybe June 2019. This is what I see from the top drop down info:

WDC WDBNCE0010PNC
SSD wear level: 100%
Uptime: 13477 hours
Power cycle count: 21617

It could just be Western Digital's idea of wear.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Not really. Mine is a WD Blue 1 TB SATA SSD that I got maybe June 2019. This is what I see from the top drop down info:

WDC WDBNCE0010PNC
SSD wear level: 100%
Uptime: 13477 hours
Power cycle count: 21617

It could just be Western Digital's idea of wear.

Have you compared that info to what Crystal Disk Info shows on that drive?

 

[y_p_w]

Have you compared that info to what Crystal Disk Info shows on that drive?

It's a Mac. Crystal Disk doesn't have a Mac version. There are other tools. I'm trying to load a command line application called smartmontools to see what it says.

 

[y_p_w]

Have you compared that info to what Crystal Disk Info shows on that drive?

I couldn't install that particular command line tool so I loaded something called DriveDx. It's kind of limited without a paid license, but I could try it out for several days with a daily active time limit. But it says this:

Advanced S.M.A.R.T. Status: OK 0 issues found​

Overall Health Rating: GOOD 100%​

SSD Lifetime Left Indicator: GOOD 74.0%​

Not sure what to make of it, but I've had this thing for nearly 4 years. This tool does say that the power on time is 0 hours, and I'm not sure what that means. If I need to replace it, then a new 2 TB SSD might be in the works. The price always seems to be going down.

 

[PandaBear]

The value of "remaining life" in SMART is what the manufacturer provided. They can lie but they will get caught, so most don't. They could make mistake obviously but usually they are caught pretty fast (i.e. the WD Red change that causes fallout in NAS market).

Usually life remaining is "program erase cycle left before estimated end of life". End of life means the wear and tear on the nand cell causing it to fail ECC and all spare blocks are used, forcing the drive to turn into read only mode.

 

[sk_pete]

(i.e. the WD Red change that causes fallout in NAS market).

they lied what tech is inside, smr does not belong in heavy usage systems like nas.

Shingled magnetic recording - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[y_p_w]

I do kind of worry about this now with built-in SSDs that are either a permanent part of a computer or where it's some sort of proprietary setup that's very hard to replace (like what Apple has).

I've heard of the rationale for making fixed flash-based storage. That it's less prone to issues with some sort of connector. That flash memory isn't subject to mechanical wear. That it's more compact. But then it can't be replaced. At least with my older Mac, I could conceivably just keep on replacing the drive that one tool says has 74% of it reasonable life left after about 4 years. Can't do that on a Chromebook (which are all flash based storage). I don't think the firmware is going to have many issues because it doesn't get all that many erase cycles.

I recently got a warranty replacement for an iPad after my original one would no longer charge off of certain types of cables, but at an Apple Store they also determined that they couldn't get a data connection to a computer. So it was a no brainer to replace it under warranty. But what I got was a replacement that looked like it could be new, but I couldn't tell what was inside, which could have just been a previously used/verified main board that was inserted into a new case with a new display. That might worry me a bit depending on how worn the storage on that board was.

 

[PandaBear]

I do kind of worry about this now with built-in SSDs that are either a permanent part of a computer or where it's some sort of proprietary setup that's very hard to replace (like what Apple has).

I've heard of the rationale for making fixed flash-based storage. That it's less prone to issues with some sort of connector. That flash memory isn't subject to mechanical wear. That it's more compact. But then it can't be replaced. At least with my older Mac, I could conceivably just keep on replacing the drive that one tool says has 74% of it reasonable life left after about 4 years. Can't do that on a Chromebook (which are all flash based storage). I don't think the firmware is going to have many issues because it doesn't get all that many erase cycles.

I recently got a warranty replacement for an iPad after my original one would no longer charge off of certain types of cables, but at an Apple Store they also determined that they couldn't get a data connection to a computer. So it was a no brainer to replace it under warranty. But what I got was a replacement that looked like it could be new, but I couldn't tell what was inside, which could have just been a previously used/verified main board that was inserted into a new case with a new display. That might worry me a bit depending on how worn the storage on that board was.

I agree, a lot of things are no longer replaceable or upgradable and you have to replace the whole unit instead of just the worn / obsoleted parts. To me outside of M1 Mac the SSD usually isn't the limiting factor, it is the soldered on DRAM that you cannot upgrade but to pay a ton of money at purchase (4x of what you can upgrade yourself) rather than later.

This is the same reason I don't like integrated anything like iMac, router with modem integrated, etc. I don't like them and would go out of my way to avoid them.

 

[y_p_w]

I agree, a lot of things are no longer replaceable or upgradable and you have to replace the whole unit instead of just the worn / obsoleted parts. To me outside of M1 Mac the SSD usually isn't the limiting factor, it is the soldered on DRAM that you cannot upgrade but to pay a ton of money at purchase (4x of what you can upgrade yourself) rather than later.

This is the same reason I don't like integrated anything like iMac, router with modem integrated, etc. I don't like them and would go out of my way to avoid them.

I see a lot of used replacement parts though, but it doesn't seem like that great an idea - like replacing a bad battery with a used battery. A place like iFixIt sells used, "good condition" logic boards and OEM SSDs, but they're basically built with limited lifespans based on the endurance of the flash memory.

I've heard of people claiming that they've been able to use various adapters to work with Apple's proprietary SSD slots, but I'm rather skeptical. But that was a few years ago; I think Apple is completely built-in SSDs now.

The thing I don't like are external hard drives with a proprietary, fixed USB setup. I suppose a good shop could replace the USB port if it's damaged, but if the board malfunctions that's another matter. I prefer ones that have real SATA drives inside that can be inserted into another enclosure if needed.

 

[Pew]

I see a lot of used replacement parts though, but it doesn't seem like that great an idea - like replacing a bad battery with a used battery. A place like iFixIt sells used, "good condition" logic boards and OEM SSDs, but they're basically built with limited lifespans based on the endurance of the flash memory.

I've heard of people claiming that they've been able to use various adapters to work with Apple's proprietary SSD slots, but I'm rather skeptical. But that was a few years ago; I think Apple is completely built-in SSDs now.

The thing I don't like are external hard drives with a proprietary, fixed USB setup. I suppose a good shop could replace the USB port if it's damaged, but if the board malfunctions that's another matter. I prefer ones that have real SATA drives inside that can be inserted into another enclosure if needed.

Most of HP's super thin laptops are all soldered in now too like my HP Envy 13. However, I was very surprised and happy to see that their non-360 Probooks and Elitebooks still have 2 RAM slots and an M.2 connector.

 

[blufeb95]

Most of HP's super thin laptops are all soldered in now too like my HP Envy 13. However, I was very surprised and happy to see that their non-360 Probooks and Elitebooks still have 2 RAM slots and an M.2 connector.

Even the not super thin ones tend to have the expansion headers unpopulated on the board, that's why I recommend against anyone buying one of those cheap Victus gaming laptops they always have on sale, because you only get one m.2 even though the platform is capable of two they just didn't populate the second slot, they also used to love to put 1x1 wifi cards in laptops and only put one antenna so you couldn't easily upgrade it.

 

[y_p_w]

Even the not super thin ones tend to have the expansion headers unpopulated on the board, that's why I recommend against anyone buying one of those cheap Victus gaming laptops they always have on sale, because you only get one m.2 even though the platform is capable of two they just didn't populate the second slot, they also used to love to put 1x1 wifi cards in laptops and only put one antenna so you couldn't easily upgrade it.

That's rather the way things have worked for a long time. Mass design costs a lot of money. I've worked on chips where there's multiple configurations and often some pins aren't used in certain configurations. Boards might have a slot left unpopulated because the the connector (and assembly) costs money.

One of the weirdest was when I bought a 32" tube TV about 25 years ago. I actually bought the base model first and then returned it within the exchange period. I guess it was then used and then sold as a demo model or maybe returned. But the one I got cheap didn't have an S-video port and didn't have certain features that were locked out since the remote didn't have certain buttons. But I think the remote hardware was also configurable. My exchange for was a slightly pricier version that looked about the same. But it was all about what they connected to the same boards.

 

[ZeeOSix]

How to Estimate the Remaining Lifespan of Your SSD

All SSDs have a limited lifespan due to write cycles (though this lifespan is much longer than you might think). Here's how you can estimate how close you are to the end.

www.makeuseof.com