squeak, squeak

[berge]

I have a 92 Acura Legend that just had the front lower ball joints changed with OEM parts 2 months ago. I watched the mechanic put them on and noticed that when putting the castle nut on, he used an impact gun, no torque wrench was used. I now have the same squeak from the front suspension that I had 2 months ago.
He says its both upper control arms, I say it sounds like the lower ball joints. would overtorqueing the castle nut cause premature failure on a ball joint.
thanks

 

[GoldenRod]

Short answer: Yes.

When fastening a castle nut onto the ball joint stud, you turn it as tight as you can by hand, using the correct size combo wrench untill one of the slots on the nut, lines up with the cotter pin hole on the ball joint stud.

If you have turned it as far as it will go and it doesn't line up with the hole, then you back it off untill it does.

Now you insert the cotter pin and bend the long end up over the stud. Now bend the short end straight down against flat of the castle nut.

The reason for the wrench and not a socket, is so you can see the slots.

As you can plainly tell, a torque wrench is not used.

An impact wrench should never be used on castle nuts except for removal.

[ January 24, 2006, 03:16 AM: Message edited by: GoldenRod ]

 

[dkcase]

The way I see how it could cause failure is if it is so severely overtorqued that the tapered shaft is at the point of breaking.

I can't see how it would have any effect on the bearing parts inside the body of the ball joint causing premature wear.

Shouldn't have anything to do with squeaking.

 

[Mud]

Squeeking is very commonly caused by either upper or lower control arm bushings.

I do not think that the mechanic did the work correctly. Any ball joint, tie rod, etc. that I've ever done has been installed using a torque wrench to tighten, then whatever slight tightening that may be needed to line up the castle nut slots.

Thinking that the impact is set to a certain torque is a sure way to start breaking stuff. Use a torque wrench and do it right. I believe that using the mfg recommended torque not only seats the tapered shaft properly, but also adds some preload to the bal joint.

 

[berge]

mud
the squeaking I had before was indeed cured by new lower ball joints.

short of re/re, can spraying with a lubricant on the suspected part help in identifying the failed joint?

 

[Mud]

berge, sometimes the noise from the control arm bushings is temporarily stopped by new ball joints. The new joints are stiff enough to limit some of the control arm movement until they seat in and loosen up just a bit. Not saying that's for sure for your car, but it does happen.

Yes, you can spray some lube to see if that will help pinpoint the noise.

Just noticed that you are in Toronto - I was born there and have family in Toronto and Kitchener. Long way down to Tejas.

 

[GoldenRod]

berge,

More than likely the ball joint was over torqued. This will cause premature wear of the ball joint. The guy who did the work for you must have been an absolute moron.

The manufacture does have torque specs for these things. Ball joints are one of those things that are either tight or not tight. In other words, a very narrow torque window. When you are dealing with things like gaskets, in which you have a wide torque window, then the use of a torque wrench would be a good idea.

 

[RH+G]

quote:

---

If you have turned it as far as it will go and it doesn't line up with the hole, then you back it off untill it does.

---

Thats a no-no. You dont back off but go on to the next hole. I highly doubt that your ball joints were worn down prematurely due to the use of an impact gun. Unless he held the gun on it for way too long.

 

[GoldenRod]

That's just it! You can't "go on to the next hole" if it's already tight as possible! There's some basic physics involved here!

 

[ChrisW]

You tighten to the spec'd torque, and if the hole doesn't line up, then you tighten futher till it does. You never back off. I have never seen it mentioned to 'back off' to line up the holes in any shop manual.

Of course if you don't measure the torque and tighten it as tight as possible, you are overtighening it in the first place. Generally, most castle-nut ball joints take only 30-45ft lbs, and can go another 1/8th to 1/4 turn be fore its reall really tight, just enough to line up things.

 

[GoldenRod]

That does it! I give up! If you can't beat'em....join'em.

 

[cousincletus]

Maybe I've been doing it wrong all these years but when I replace a ball joint, tie rod end, idler arm, etc. I have to tighten the nut pretty tight to ensure the tapered shaft is seated. I have never used a torque wrench in this application. I doubt the new ball joint is bad. To check, jack up one side of the car at the frame, stick a 2X4 piece of lumber or other prying apparatus under the wheel, pry upward and have someone look at the joint and observe movement.

[ January 25, 2006, 08:06 AM: Message edited by: cousincletus ]

 

[berge]

update.
bad left lower ball joint. changed both sides anyways. squeak gone.
mechanic was reaching for the impact gun until I stopped him and insisted he use a torque wrench. oh well.

thanks all.

 

[seotaji]

did you make him pay for it?

 

[berge]

not for the parts.
didn't pay for the re/re again though.

 

[AcuraTech]

92 Legend. Same car I have. One of the best Acuras ever made.

Anyway, front lower ball joints on Acuras with the wishbone suspension love to start squeeking in the wintertime. It seems like the joints dont get flexed enough and the grease is too cold to move around. You get a dry spot inside that causes the noise.

The ball joints never seem to go bad (as far as wearing out/excessive play), just squeek. Torqueing the castle nut has nothing to do with it, IMO.

 

[berge]

acuratech

that's interesting. thanks.

curious, you got the infamous '20' beeps on your power seat memory system too?