Something I was told from a dealer

[RamFan]

I stopped by a Toyota dealership yesterday to report an incident on my Charger that I bought from them and received a rather surprising statement. I was explaining how the car was burning oil and I was wondering if he could note in the system this burning so if the burning intensified and I would have to bring the car in for work he would have a history to work with, essentially I was asking to start an oil consumption study.

As soon as I said the word "burning", he asks, "Are you seeing smoke?". "No which is kind of odd, but it isn't reaching excessive levels yet which might be why" is what I was going to respond with but he cut me off at "odd" and stated that "since there is no smoke it isn't burning oil, it is just consuming oil."

I was dumbfounded, and wasn't sure how to respond. Since when is oil consumption and oil burning two different things? If they genuinely are different please explain, but as far as I have learned they are the same thing.

 

[Eddie]

Could be leaking or actually burning.

 

[tinmanSC]

You said it is burning oil but you didn't tell us how much oil it is burning.

One assumes consumption = no adverse effects, while burning = smokey issues on start up, while driving, etc.. Odd that the tech would cut you off with this semantic distinction.

 

[JoeWGauss]

Hearing things like this just make me more convinced that you are very very fortunate IF you find a dealer that actually is COMPETENT in ANY way!!!! Doesn't matter which brand of car either. Most dealer service depts today with the exception of maybe one or two master techs at each store have techs that are nothing but parts replacers and have little or no diagnostic ability.

 

[RamFan]

1/4 quart to bring the oil back to the "max" line on the dipstick, 250 miles on the dot since the oil was changed March 22. It is on track with Chrysler's 1 quart every 1k miles acceptability policy.

 

[hemitom]

How could they justify a quart in 1000k ,would this not quickly kill the cats.

 

[Astro14]

It's a technical fine point. Sure, "burning" means oil is leaving the engine through the combustion chamber...while presumably "consuming" means it is leaving the engine through the same means, and "using" means that the oil is leaving the engine through one of many possible avenues....while leaks are just that.

But to see blue smoke, you've got to be using more like a QT every 100 miles or so...but this jerk (yeah, I mean it) defines "burning" as blue smoke...when the rest of us would call that "excessive consumption".

I don't know that I would use the 1/4QT in 250 miles as proof that you're using 1 QT/1,000 miles, though...it's too small an amount, and over too short a distance. 1/4 could be measuring error...and I've seen where oil stays at the exact same level for 1,000 miles around town, then drops 1/2 QT after a good long highway run because some amount of fuel dilution and moisture evaporated off...run it 1,000 miles...in town and on the highway, then see where your level is...

But this tech was jerky about the discussion...no doubt...

 

[mechanicx]

I think he is just giving you the brush off using semantics. Consumption and burning oil is the same thing in my view. "Burning" could be considered more descriptive. If the oil is leaking out you might also say it is consuming oil (using, losing oil), but if there was no leaks oil consumption means the same thing as burning.

 

[RFIRE]

Chrysler told me they had a one qt every 800 miles as their base line definition of excessive oil consumption, when they refused to honor their warranty.

 

[hemitom]

I used to drive a 73 new yorker with 440. 4 quart sump , 150000k on motor it burnt a quart in 500 to 800 miles depending on how hard i drove it. Chrysler is full of [censored]

 

[Rican]

Could be blow-by and it's basically absorbed from your engine valve cover to your intake manifold and/or intake track by vacuum. It's pretty common in boosted cars, but can also happen to na engines. To find out, you could intall an oil catch can or air compressor filter in place to the measure oil

 

[JHZR2]

Start a real paper trail. Pay lots of visits and log them with result.

That's the problem with used cars...

 

[hardcore302]

He's playing with words. Try explaining to him whats going on without him cutting you off.

 

[Hootbro]

I will let others debate the semantics but I had a 1998 Corolla that "consumed" oil. Probably went through a quart every 500 miles or so. In the 180K miles I had it, never once did the plugs show oil burning, nor did the cats ever foul from it.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: hemitom
I used to drive a 73 new yorker with 440. 4 quart sump , 150000k on motor it burnt a quart in 500 to 800 miles depending on how hard i drove it. Chrysler is full of [censored]


...and GM defines "Excessive oil consumption as 1 qt every 400-600 miles (TSB 01-06-01-023) 1 qt every 1000 miles? no problem

and Toyota has sludge problems
, and that Mazda RX-8 just guzzles oil! They are all full of.....ummmm...stuff.

 

[RamFan]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
It's a technical fine point. Sure, "burning" means oil is leaving the engine through the combustion chamber...while presumably "consuming" means it is leaving the engine through the same means, and "using" means that the oil is leaving the engine through one of many possible avenues....while leaks are just that.

But to see blue smoke, you've got to be using more like a QT every 100 miles or so...but this jerk (yeah, I mean it) defines "burning" as blue smoke...when the rest of us would call that "excessive consumption".

I don't know that I would use the 1/4QT in 250 miles as proof that you're using 1 QT/1,000 miles, though...it's too small an amount, and over too short a distance. 1/4 could be measuring error...and I've seen where oil stays at the exact same level for 1,000 miles around town, then drops 1/2 QT after a good long highway run because some amount of fuel dilution and moisture evaporated off...run it 1,000 miles...in town and on the highway, then see where your level is...

But this tech was jerky about the discussion...no doubt...


I couldn't agree more about 250 being to early to tell. I was trying to say that if the 1/4 quart at 250 mile stays linear then it falls inline with 1 quart every 1k miles. I do one or two 300 mile round trips a month so I will be able to see how it burns with various driving styles. This post wasn't intended as trying to figure out why the car is burning instead I was just sharing my experience with an arrogant [censored] at a dealership.

 

[Virtuoso]

Gotta love when they bull [censored] like that.

Maybe we should play word games too?? Whoever you talked to wasn't just being subversive, he was being an [censored] too!

 

[eljefino]

Your cat's eating it so you won't see the smoke.

If the warranty covers "consumption" and the dealer agrees/insists you're "consuming", not "burning", I'd be okay with that.

PS Saturn's threshold in the s-series days was a quart in 600 miles. They had a deal where they'd change the oil and you'd drive around until you were over a quart low then report back for them to check your stick before you'd get the car fixed.

 

[Hokiefyd]

A lot of ChryCo minivan owners had high oil consumption with the 3.8L engines in the minivans. It seemed to be only the 2005-2007 engines, for some reason. Chrysler would put dye into the oil and check for leaks after a period of time, but only if they could document your oil consumption at worse than 1 qt/1,000 miles. If they couldn't see any visible leaks, then they'd start opening things up. One owner on the minivan board had his heads replaced (didn't help), then pistons and rings replaced (didn't help), and finally a new short block installed. All this, obviously, transpired over months and miles of time to allow them to document the consumption, and turned into a rather frustrating experience.

 

[MrCritical]

If you have an oil consumption problem with a Dodge Charger in powertrain warranty, you're going to need an oil consumption test at a Dodge Dealer.

Everything else is a waste of your time.