Some 5.4 3v suffering for us all to see

[The_Eric]

Hey guys, a couple years ago, I bought an 04 F150 5.4 3V for super cheap. Customer didn't want to repair it, so I bought it. Needed the usual 3v stuff, plus some odds and ends.. But, it was a good, clean and relatively rust free truck. Anyway, got it running but had a knock.. Isolated it to #2. Pulled the pan and 2's rod bearing was bad, so put a set of bearings in (crank looked good yet). Drove it but it still had a dull knock to it. Didn't really change with temp and was gone by 1800 rpm. Said screw it and drove it any way. Well it ended up annoying me and it was still making some metal in the oil, so I built another 3v to replace it.

As things go, there was always something more pressing and the new motor sat patiently on its stand for quite some time.. Ended up driving the truck for a couple years/15k miles. Several out of town trips and even an out of state trip or two. Finally pulled it a month or 2 ago now and got the fresh bullet installed. Well the other day I decided to pull the pan and investigate the noise, hoping I could sell the long block. A quick visual showed nothing obvious, but a closer look showed something askew on #1 main. Could see some bearing poking out from the cap. Turing the crank showed bigger problems - the shell was Turing with the crank! Well, guess I'm not selling it as a running engine any more

Pulling the main, I was rewarded with carnage..

 

[bullwinkle]

Wow-5W20 flaming coming in 3… 2… 1… If it only had 15W40 in the pan (J/K)! Almost looks like the main welded itself to the crank, at least temporarily. Once it starts spinning, it’s pretty much going to keep doing it. How were the heads? Any damage from all the metal circulating in the oil?

 

[The_Eric]

Haven't looked yet. I'm sure the cam bearing caps will have some marks - but they did when I did the oil pump, chains, guides etc to get it on the road. ..

Fwiw, I've been running bulk 5w30 blend and installed a melling M360HV HV/HP oil pump when I did the work on it initially. That's probably what kept this thing together as long as it did.

And because we're all oil nerds here, the new motor is being fed a diet of NAPA/Parts Master 5w30 syn (both Ashland produced) at 3 to 5k intervals, because 3v... Also has the Melling M360HV pump too.

 

[ecotourist]

Remarkable it ran so well and for so long.

When I was looking for my first car I was particularly impressed with Fords because they continued to run well even if they smoked. Little did I know that the real problem was that Fords of that era had a tendency to smoke. The 289 V8 in my second car (the Comet) sure did.

 

[wpod]

Wow-5W20 flaming coming in 3… 2… 1… If it only had 15W40 in the pan (J/K)! Almost looks like the main welded itself to the crank, at least temporarily. Once it starts spinning, it’s pretty much going to keep doing it. How were the heads? Any damage from all the metal circulating in the oil?

We do not know what actually cause the problem but the 20 wt oil has a thinner oil wedge and is gets pushed out of the bearings easier.

 

[Kjmack]

Just another Ford engineering flop that cost loyal buyer's headachs

 

[bullwinkle]

To me, the fact it ate rod bearings first means it was neglected/abused before you got it. Main failure doesn’t seem all that common in an iron block engine. It probably was spinning before you replaced the rod bearings (since the dull thunk remained). I’m not convinced 5W20 was ever a good idea in a 3V anyway, too much phaser noise. That’s why I made the smart aleck 15W40 comment…

 

[bullwinkle]

Just another Ford engineering flop that cost loyal buyer's headachs

I’m not convinced this was really Ford’s fault. There’s a first time for everything! How many miles, roughly? I saw the 15K since the rod bearings, etc.

 

[The_Eric]

To me, the fact it ate rod bearings first means it was neglected/abused before you got it. Main failure doesn’t seem all that common in an iron block engine. It probably was spinning before you replaced the rod bearings (since the dull thunk remained). I’m not convinced 5W20 was ever a good idea in a 3V anyway, too much phaser noise. That’s why I made the smart aleck 15W40 comment…

Interestingly, all the other rod bearings were basically perfect. The occasional odd small scar from FOD... This engine had approx 195k on it when I bought it.. Pulled it out between 210 and 211k miles.

Haven't pulled the other mains.. I should though.

 

[mattd]

I’ll bet the oil pump was dying. Another common issue on the 3V. Probably the source of most of the oiling issues..in combination with poor maintenance from previous owner

 

[FZ1]

Hey guys, a couple years ago, I bought an 04 F150 5.4 3V for super cheap. Customer didn't want to repair it, so I bought it. Needed the usual 3v stuff, plus some odds and ends.. But, it was a good, clean and relatively rust free truck. Anyway, got it running but had a knock.. Isolated it to #2. Pulled the pan and 2's rod bearing was bad, so put a set of bearings in (crank looked good yet). Drove it but it still had a dull knock to it. Didn't really change with temp and was gone by 1800 rpm. Said screw it and drove it any way. Well it ended up annoying me and it was still making some metal in the oil, so I built another 3v to replace it.

As things go, there was always something more pressing and the new motor sat patiently on its stand for quite some time.. Ended up driving the truck for a couple years/15k miles. Several out of town trips and even an out of state trip or two. Finally pulled it a month or 2 ago now and got the fresh bullet installed. Well the other day I decided to pull the pan and investigate the noise, hoping I could sell the long block. A quick visual showed nothing obvious, but a closer look showed something askew on #1 main. Could see some bearing poking out from the cap. Turing the crank showed bigger problems - the shell was Turing with the crank! Well, guess I'm not selling it as a running engine any more

Pulling the main, I was rewarded with carnage..

Interesting info. Thanks,man.

 

[ripcord]

This thread is a good reminder that the wife's Expedition needs an oil change

 

[Brian123]

Basically the cause of this damage was poor maintenance, meaning not doing proper oil changes? Another scenario could be that this vehicle was run with the oil level low?

 

[Kjmack]

I’m not convinced this was really Ford’s fault. There’s a first time for everything! How many miles, roughly? I saw the 15K since the rod bearings, etc.

It's the worst modern engine Ford ever made

 

[cb_13]

It's the worst modern engine Ford ever made

If you think Ford hasn’t made a bigger turd than the 5.4 3v. Do a little research on the 1.5/1.6 4 cylinder ecoboost engines.

 

[The_Eric]

Basically the cause of this damage was poor maintenance, meaning not doing proper oil changes? Another scenario could be that this vehicle was run with the oil level low?

I don't really know the root cause to be honest.

According to the guy I bought it from (he bought it from 1st owner) it was used as an interstate commuter for a banker... I tend to believe it because with near 200k miles, it was clean, rust and rattle free. The engine didn't appear really neglected as when I was in doing 3v timing stuff, there was only varnish, no sludge. But who really knows..

 

[The_Eric]

I’m not convinced this was really Ford’s fault. There’s a first time for everything! How many miles, roughly? I saw the 15K since the rod bearings, etc.

The engine had 195k when I took ownership. How long the rod and main were making metal and noise??? Good question.

 

[Brian123]

I don't really know the root cause to be honest.

According to the guy I bought it from (he bought it from 1st owner) it was used as an interstate commuter for a banker... I tend to believe it because with near 200k miles, it was clean, rust and rattle free. The engine didn't appear really neglected as when I was in doing 3v timing stuff, there was only varnish, no sludge. But who really knows..

In your opinion does the type of oil came into play here? What I mean is that maybe a cheap oil was used in this vehicle, and maybe things would be different if a good oil like Mobil 1 or Pennzoil Ultra Platinum was used?

 

[D60]

It's the worst modern engine Ford ever made

If you're Ford USA, the one vehicle you absolutely cannot screw up is the F150, followed closely by the SuperDutys

I mean you could have every Fiesta, Edge, Fusion catch on fire and survive, but if you significantly impact sales of the F150 you're in a world of hurt.

 

[ripcord]

It's the worst modern engine Ford ever made

That could be, though we have 220k on my wife's example and the engine is still as quiet as a church mouse and it's never been opened up for any reason. I've never even broken a spark plug in the thing. Most of it's life it had 5w20, though I've been using 5w30 the last several years.