Solid state batteries

[raaizin]

This would be great if this could make a production vehicle. I would seriously consider an electric vehicle if the charge times can be decreased

Hyundai Announces Partnership With Factorial Solid State Battery Outfit

The company is very close to conducting real-world solid-state battery tests.

www.motortrend.com

 

[Snagglefoot]

Thanks for the post. Although Elon Musk has done some very impressive things, I was never impressed by him putting together over 2000 little batteries to made a big one. Lets hope for better battery technology out there.

 

[philipp10]

Yeah there have been MANY companies claiming to have cracked the SSB. Most have been long on claims and short on real results. The only company so far to come close is Quantumscape. They have submitted their batteries for 3rd party testing. Don't fall for the BS.

 

[JHZR2]

Yeah there have been MANY companies claiming to have cracked the SSB. Most have been long on claims and short on real results. The only company so far to come close is Quantumscape. They have submitted their batteries for 3rd party testing. Don't fall for the BS.

Agree. Lots of work, less practical outcomes in the field.

Thanks for the post. Although Elon Musk has done some very impressive things, I was never impressed by him putting together over 2000 little batteries to made a big one. Lets hope for better battery technology out there.

View attachment 76454

me too, but he leveraged the consumer electronic market and what could be manufactured in quantity. They are now working with larger form factors, a 46mm cell as I recall…

 

[PandaBear]

Elon is right about using standardized small cell first until economy of scale catches up. Every manufacturing process or machine need to have scale to be effective, so if you are selling more cars you can go with bigger cells, then bigger when you sell even more. You cannot get there in one stop and then have the machine shut down because you cannot sell them all, it would be very expensive.

 

[raaizin]

Yeah there have been MANY companies claiming to have cracked the SSB. Most have been long on claims and short on real results. The only company so far to come close is Quantumscape. They have submitted their batteries for 3rd party testing. Don't fall for the BS.

As I said "This would be great if this could make a production vehicle"

 

[Cujet]

Yeah there have been MANY companies claiming to have cracked the SSB. Most have been long on claims and short on real results. The only company so far to come close is Quantumscape. They have submitted their batteries for 3rd party testing. Don't fall for the BS.

So true.

At the moment, I'm unaware of any truly promising technology that will actually make batteries competitive with fuels. A million dollar, and relatively honest battery study came to the conclusion that 20% improvements in energy density will be possible in 10 years, and possibly as much as 40% in 20 years. While that is good, it falls very short of what people believe is going to happen.

Put into perspective, given the same battery size, high speed highway range will go from an honest 220 miles to 300 for sleek vehicles, and less for pickups. 6000 pound towing range will go from 100 miles to 140.

 

[wag123]

Yeah there have been MANY companies claiming to have cracked the SSB. Most have been long on claims and short on real results. The only company so far to come close is Quantumscape. They have submitted their batteries for 3rd party testing. Don't fall for the BS.

Toyota and it's battery partners are well-along in the SSB development process. They have the largest number of international patents related to all-solid-state battery technology, and they actually have a running driving prototype EV using the technology. Samsung is also well along in SSB development, they are second to Toyota when it comes to the number of international patents related to all-solid-state battery technology.

Toyota’s Big Bet On Solid State Batteries Could Boost The Entire Sector

The world's largest automaker has just raised the stakes in the solid-state battery sector after announcing its intention to invest over $13.5 billion by 2030

www.yahoo.com

 

[PandaBear]

Improvement in technology is going to be slower than improvement in cost. I think it is possible for a lot of commodity (not near luxury or luxury) vehicles to have what Tesla's range today at a Corolla price for a Corolla sized car. What it won't do, is to have a range that is double or triple of Tesla's range for the same battery weight.

I think most people would be happy to get a Corolla priced Corolla sized car that can do what Tesla can do today. I know I would.

 

[1000MPH]

I suggest the book “Car Wars”.
It was Alan Cocconi at AC Propulsion who had designed the li-ion modules using the 18650 cells for his T-Zero around 2002-03. Considering they are still used in the Plaid, and perform far better than most care to admit, including me, I’d say they’ve had a decent run.

 

[Cujet]

I think it is possible for a lot of commodity (not near luxury or luxury) vehicles to have what Tesla's range today at a Corolla price for a Corolla sized car.

We can keep hoping. But if Tesla's robotic mega factories can't pull off a mass production discount, nobody can. You'll note that Tesla's Model 3 prices have climbed multiple times this year, and are up as much as $7,000. The Model Y and others also follow. The bottom line is as much as a 20% price increase on some models.

You'll note that GM's "Bolt" is a loss leader, and while it was available for a "reasonable" price, GM was losing at least $10K on each car sold at MSRP. and around $23K loss with the common discounts! VW is also similar with the ID.4. Requiring dealers to take a 4.5% profit instead of 14% on each vehicle. Furthermore, the speculation is that the ID.4 is not profitable at $45,000, and it's being subsidized by ICE profits and other "interventions".

I don't see Corrola like pricing and Telsa like range happening anytime soon. What I see is a new reality of very pleasant, more expensive and less capable cars.

My "guess", VW is also losing $10K with their aggressive $45K pricing structure.

 

[PandaBear]

We can keep hoping. But if Tesla's robotic mega factories can't pull off a mass production discount, nobody can. You'll note that Tesla's Model 3 prices have climbed multiple times this year, and are up as much as $7,000. The Model Y and others also follow. The bottom line is as much as a 20% price increase on some models.

You'll note that GM's "Bolt" is a loss leader, and while it was available for a "reasonable" price, GM was losing at least $10K on each car sold at MSRP. and around $23K loss with the common discounts! VW is also similar with the ID.4. Requiring dealers to take a 4.5% profit instead of 14% on each vehicle. Furthermore, the speculation is that the ID.4 is not profitable at $45,000, and it's being subsidized by ICE profits and other "interventions".

I don't see Corrola like pricing and Telsa like range happening anytime soon. What I see is a new reality of very pleasant, more expensive and less capable cars.

My "guess", VW is also losing $10K with their aggressive $45K pricing structure.

I think if anyone can do it, it would be Tesla and CATL. Nobody thought the Chinese would subsidize panel production scale to what we see today, and I think they might pull this again for CATL battery and they would really need it for their domestic cars need.