so do 8 speed transmissions...

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Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I can't imagine being in high gear at such a low speed with a 6 speed. It must downshift at the drop of a hat. I think a 5 speed AT is all I'd want at this point. A 6 speed might be OK with a 4.10 gearing, I can't imagine an 8 speed. Can you actually tow with one?


Just as an example, the ZF 8 speed new generation slushbox used in BMW, Chrysler and others is rated for up to 700+ foot pounds of torque! This box could certainly tow.
 
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: oldmaninsc

Call me old fashioned if you will - but for me anymore than 5 gears in an automatic would be somewhat annoying.


You can't be annoyed by something you can't even notice.


Though I might concede the point, you are making a VERY large assumption there! That is - because you don't notice it everyone else wouldn't notice it. I may be old but my hearing is as good as it ever was!
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Every one in the thread is making HUGE assumptions.

Lumping all automatics together is ridiculous. Some are snappy as heck, some even know how the car is being driven and react to cornering and braking forces with terrific programming...

Some don't even have a torque converter. Some that are NOT DCT's.
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Every one in the thread is making HUGE assumptions.

Lumping all automatics together is ridiculous. Some are snappy as heck...


Exactly.

That was my point way above. All manuals aren't the same either.

Joel
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Is there still alot of lag between hitting the paddle/button and the actual shift?

There is some, but I wouldn't call it a lot. But it wasn't really the lag (or lack of it) that I had issue with. I still felt disconnected from the car - something that's hard to describe. Maybe if I spent more time with it, I'd get used to it, but I was just missing that pure mechanical connection that you get from holding a shifter in your hand and feathering the clutch. Yeah, yeah, I'm old school...

In the A3 I drove the shifts at full throttle were virtual instantaneously, much faster than you can humanly shift. Part throttle shifts at lower rev's were slower. A very sophisticated automated manual gearbox.
Having said that, just give me a sweet BMW or Honda gearbox (just to name two) with proper pedal arrangement and I'm happy.
 
Originally Posted By: Whimsey
Sad to say they killed a good economy car based closely upon the Ford's European version.


Couldn't agree with you more on that one!!

Probably the most under-rated, and under-appreciated automobile ever offered for sale in this country.
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Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I can't imagine being in high gear at such a low speed with a 6 speed. It must downshift at the drop of a hat. I think a 5 speed AT is all I'd want at this point. A 6 speed might be OK with a 4.10 gearing, I can't imagine an 8 speed. Can you actually tow with one?


Even with much fewer gears it can shift too soon if it's programmed to do so. I had a 4-speed Focus rental a few years ago that lugged along at 1100 rpm in fourth in city traffic, making weird low frequency vibrations.

I haven't driven an automatic with more than 6 speeds yet, but I think the way the transmission reacts to your inputs is the most important aspect. As long as it's not regularly hunting for gears and downshifts to the appropriate gear instantly when you floor it, I wouldn't be bothered by it having a lot of gears.
 
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
As for a stick vs. auto on a commuter car, I've done both and I honestly forget I'm even shifting and clutching in a traffic jam. Its just part of driving the car and my brain does it on autopilot.


Same here, although it KILLS ME to think of the clutch, and master/slave cylinder wear happening in those traffic jams to the point of me driving 10-15 miles+ out of my way to avoid, or get around them.

A decent (LS7 Corvette kit) clutch/flywheel/ancillaries replacement job (including labor) for my car runs at least ~$1300.00!
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Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Every one in the thread is making HUGE assumptions.

Lumping all automatics together is ridiculous. Some are snappy as heck, some even know how the car is being driven and react to cornering and braking forces with terrific programming...


Forgive me. I honestly didn't know that some new automatics would know how I planned on accelerating out of a corner, pick the correct gear before corner entry, and then hold that gear no matter what I do with the throttle!
 
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
I wish a manufacturer would do a sequential shift, with a mechanically linked shifter on a true manual transmission. I do have to say after first learning to drive a manual on a 6spd 125 motocross bike, any H pattern shifter does feel needlessly laborious... With a sequential shift even 8 speeds wouldn't feel like a chore to row through and you could do more Ken Block style driving on your way to work... Or atleast on the track!


Also could not agree more!!
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But the problem is that it is almost impossible to make one of these quiet enough, as well as getting rid of the 'crashing/clanging' (when shifting) enough for most people's street use, sadly enough, since straight cut gears and 'dog ring' engagement must be used.
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You and I may be the ONLY ones who would be willing to 'live with' those pitfalls, in everyday driving, in order to get that performance.
 
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Also could not agree more!!
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But the problem is that it is almost impossible to make one of these quiet enough, as well as getting rid of the 'crashing/clanging' (when shifting) enough for most people's street use, sadly enough, since straight cut gears and 'dog ring' engagement must be used.
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You and I may be the ONLY ones who would be willing to 'live with' those pitfalls, in everyday driving, in order to get that performance.


I think a good dual-clutch semi-automatic is close enough. It certainly has all the performance of a sequential manual. I'd prefer such a thing for track use, but a manual is so much more relaxed for city driving. You can skip as many gears as you want at any time, and keep the shifts calm and smooth no matter how hard you're running the engine between shifts. If I had to shift through every gear all the time on the streets, I'd rather an automatic handle it much of the time, with the ability to immediately take control at the touch of a paddle.
 
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum


As for a stick vs. auto on a commuter car, I've done both and I honestly forget I'm even shifting and clutching in a traffic jam. Its just part of driving the car and my brain does it on autopilot.



In my Civic or Integra? Sure.

In the 04 Heritage F-150 STX 4.2? Hard to forget.

Somebody in an automatic up there in the bumper to bumper mire is going slower than I can go clutch all the way out at idle in first. Clutch in, creep forward, clutch in, creep forward, clutch in, creep forward, clutch in, creep forward, clutch in, creep forward, clutch in, creep forward... I'm going to have to do leg presses for an hour with only my right leg just to even this excercise out. Otherwise I will have a hideously overdeveloped left leg.

Then I get back into the old Civic or 'teg and try to kick the pedal through the firewall the first time I push it.
 
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Somebody in an automatic up there in the bumper to bumper mire is going slower than I can go clutch all the way out at idle in first. Clutch in, creep forward, clutch in, creep forward, clutch in, creep forward, clutch in, creep forward, clutch in, creep forward, clutch in, creep forward... I'm going to have to do leg presses for an hour with only my right leg just to even this excercise out. Otherwise I will have a hideously overdeveloped left leg.


I've been there! It feels really weird to walk afterwards when you've only been working your left leg.
 
Originally Posted By: rpn453
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Every one in the thread is making HUGE assumptions.

Lumping all automatics together is ridiculous. Some are snappy as heck, some even know how the car is being driven and react to cornering and braking forces with terrific programming...


Forgive me. I honestly didn't know that some new automatics would know how I planned on accelerating out of a corner, pick the correct gear before corner entry, and then hold that gear no matter what I do with the throttle!


THAT! Wow, you are the only person who really gets it.

They do exactly that. The cool part is the way they will hold the gear in the corner no matter what the throttle does!

I'm surprised you are the only one here who knew about these!

(sarcasm noted)
 
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Hmmm. You go into the corner, put your foot down, it downshifts and accelerates. What am I missing here?

But that's exactly what you don't want to happen. The act of shifting in the corner throws the car out of balance, and if you're driving at the limit, it may result in a disaster.
 
and that's precisely what I'm trying to tell you guys.

In a particular drivetrain that I have extensive track experience with the car will not shift (up or down) if there is sufficient g load. Barrel up to a curve and as you brake the car will downshift aggressively during braking!

The car responds to aggressive driving and loads a performance program automatically.

Ya'll should get out more.
 
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Hmmm. You go into the corner, put your foot down, it downshifts and accelerates. What am I missing here?


Go try that and see how well you make out
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Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Yeah, I can think of more than a few cars where that is a recipe for disaster!


Same here!
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