It ain't Damascus and it's not welded.
Its condition is shoot it.
Smokeless Muzzleloading............at Mach 3 and beyond
- Thread starter burbguy82
- Start date
Its condition is shoot it.
Why? A smokeless powder charge, accurately measured, will be at the same power level as blackpowder.
Pressure is the danger, not the propellant.
Caution should always be used with antique firearms, I would add with any modern ammo. You are 100% correct on that point.
Actually, I misspoke. One should never fire old damascus or welded steel barreled shotguns with any kind of ammo, period, smokeless or black powder. The problem being that black powder is corrosive and the micro cracks and seams in those barrels may be subject to weakening down in the grain where corrosive compounds have had a century or more to invade.
Antique muzzle loaders prior to the Civil War were mostly made from welded flat stock so should not be fired as a general rule, either. Modern muzzle loader's barrels are made from solid bar stock and have drilled bores and as such are much stronger.
About your question regarding using smokeless powder in antique black powder firearms... Black powder will not generate high pressures no matter how much you stuff in. I forget the exact number but IIRC it maxes out around 15 or 16k psi. Common smokeless loads routinely generate much higher pressures. You could probably hand load some very low pressure smokeless loads that would be safe in some antique firearms, but all the experts say don't do it. Steel was of less uniform quality back then, too.
Last edited:
This is correct. Smokeless powder CAN gerate more pressure. The issue is the amount of propellant, not the propellant.
No. A muzzleloader loads from the muzzle not the breach. That is really the defining factor, not the propellant. Some localities further stipulate the use of black powder, or more commonly categorize the name incorrectly.
Triple_Se7en
$50 Site Donor 2024
I taught Muzzleloading and Associated Accessories - both at rifle ranges and online for nearly 20 years. My name here is a substitute granular powder propellant.
When Smokeless Powders, Smokeless Muzzleloading Rifles and it's new association of Accessories needed to product successful hunts began to increase interest and use around 15 years ago, I quit the teaching game and never looked back since.
I sold seven of ten muzzleloaders I owned and haven't touched a single one (of three remaining) in several years now. It seemed that disgust in the sport's technology advances turned me sour overnight. Our country is losing it's grip on keeping Manly Traditions alive. I blame most of that on the lack of household fathers. Most-all Moms don't want anything to do with guns, so the kids look at their IPhones for games, pornography and hip-hop instead.
It took me since March 28th to open this Thread. I regret doing so. Sorry for the Rant.
When Smokeless Powders, Smokeless Muzzleloading Rifles and it's new association of Accessories needed to product successful hunts began to increase interest and use around 15 years ago, I quit the teaching game and never looked back since.
I sold seven of ten muzzleloaders I owned and haven't touched a single one (of three remaining) in several years now. It seemed that disgust in the sport's technology advances turned me sour overnight. Our country is losing it's grip on keeping Manly Traditions alive. I blame most of that on the lack of household fathers. Most-all Moms don't want anything to do with guns, so the kids look at their IPhones for games, pornography and hip-hop instead.
It took me since March 28th to open this Thread. I regret doing so. Sorry for the Rant.
why?
Triple_Se7en
$50 Site Donor 2024
A Muzzleloader is a rifle, unless it's a pistol or revolver. But the best one to shoot is none-other than a Cannon. It's Roundball I picked up one day weighed between 5-7lbs.
I never made the connection! Maybe I should change mine to reflect Elephant Brand Powder.
Back in the mid 90s I got a deal on Elephant and ran that for about 2 decades in my Parker Hale carbine.
Waking well before sunrise and stalking through the frigid woods only to hear a “pffft” when I expected a “bang” is a tradition I’m happy to abandon.
Yesterday, a bit off topic, but was shooting with the friend who has been mentioned in this thread, who has developed a safe way to shoot smokeless powder. the gun pictured has won the Hickory Groundhog shoot, here in NC, if I am not mistaken........either this one or another he built. The stock od handmade, from Russian plywood, along with the soft aluminum buttplate, you know to pad the nearly absent recoil of this 6BR, of course with the custom bipod, and muzzle brake. The brake is made from 7075 T6 aluminum, and is ridiculously effective.
This was the first time i shot this gun i think. we were fireforming these cases for the final load he will take to rhe competion this weekend.
target in pic is at 300 yards.....with this load, which was just ok, the gun shoots .5moa.....with the better load he developed, it is south of .25
This was the first time i shot this gun i think. we were fireforming these cases for the final load he will take to rhe competion this weekend.
target in pic is at 300 yards.....with this load, which was just ok, the gun shoots .5moa.....with the better load he developed, it is south of .25
Looks like a scaled down artillery piece. FUN!
My question is why? There are plenty of smokeless guns out there and no real reason to use smokeless powder in a muzzleloader. Seems like a solution, (and a bad one at that) to a problem that doesn't exist. All that is not to mention the liability you shoulder by putting this drivel out there.