small ZTR's.... any worth considering?

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meep

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My home sits on a lot just smaller than a half acre. It's treed and odd-shaped with a narrow tail, and nooks and crannies everywhere. I am a diehard push-mower but I've accepted that needs to change due to some knee aging that's not getting any better.

It usually takes me 1.5 hours to mow with a 21" self-prop mower.

So I need to go to a rider. It's not a big yard, and manueverability is pretty important. I'd be open to normal "steered" mowers, though never having had one, IDK if it'd be too much of a pain rowing the wheel back and forth.

so I looked at entry level ZTRs. There's a single blade 30" toro with a briggs; a double-blade ariens 34", briggs also; and a husq single blade 30" with a briggs and some unfavorable reviews on the engine. All of these sit around 2200-2400.

My yard is mostly level, but there are some mild slopes on one end to help divert drainage. During the peak season (about half of the growing season), I have to mow weekly, and the rest can often get by at twice per month.

Thoughts?
 
If your looking for low price you might look at the Swisher brand of ZTR mowers , they're made in the U.S.A. too.
I also like the Husqvarna mowers.
 
I have 1/2 acre and a million flowerbeds, trails, trees... etc to deal with. I did it once with a push mower but at over an hour I knew I wouldn't have time to deal with it weekly.

I don't have the money for a ZTR (or at least I have better things to spend two grand on) so I have a snapper rear engine. It has the turning radius of a zeppelin and isn't very fast. But a few things to consider from my experience.

First, the 30 inch deck isn't much bigger than a push but my mowing time is about 20~30 minutes so less than half because you can drive it faster than you can push a mower (especially after an hour). The 30 inch single blade will scalp if you have a lot of dips/ridges in your lawn. It's just so long front to back. In that regard double or triple blades that are only 14" front to rear would be a huge improvement. At the very least if this will be an issue get something with gauge wheels on the deck (deck rollers). You can get used to the large turning radius by doing loops and coming up with a mowing pattern that takes a little more time but avoids sharp turns.

Lastly, the leaf cleanup has saved me probably 10 hours a year since I bought a pull behind lawn sweeper.

My opinion is that the ZTR's are a time saver for professionals and there isn't a reason a homeowner "needs" one to save them 10 minutes a week. On the other hand I think they'd be fun to drive and probably add less than 500 bucks onto what you'd pay for a high quality traditional tractor.

And if you want to find a snapper RER on the side of the road, tear it down and fix it up. It was a fun project for me. Mine is a 1990 all original (including engine) and runs like a top. Things that would be made of plastic on other tractors (like the shifter gear indicator, deck level indicator) are 1/8" thick steel on it. It's a tank. It's got me looking at 1960's deere's, though, since once you start restoring you just can't easily stop.
 
we mow a few acres and shopped the segment heavily last year.

The ZTR's are quite expensive when compared to a regular lawn tractor/mower IMO. Some of them were quite complex as well, leading me to question their reliability.

My Craftsman mower cuts 54 inches wide yet can turn in an 8 inch circle! That's right, eight inches. It's amazingly versatile, and it can tow a small trailer which the ZTR's can't.

ZTR is for mowing grass, if that's all you got and you're willing to pay a bit more then it's for you!
 
I don't like the price of ztr's one bit and would normally be happy with $999 big box special.... heck... i'm coming from a lifetime of pushing...

here's the rub-- very poor wrists-- repetitive motion = a bad thing. worried that continuous rowing on a steering wheel will end up being just as aggravating as the push mower (which I generally pull behind me with a strap looped over my arm/elbow). Not interested in a lawn service. For what they are asking, even a ztr will pay for itself in a few years.
 
I recommend one of these:

Snapper-2812523BVE-Riding-Mower.jpeg


The Snappers are cheap, they are very reliable and well built, and they have a great turning radius.

I would stay away from Zero turn mowers unless you buy an expensive one. The lower cost models tend to be of the same quality as the big box store mowers and I've seen a few with failed hydro pumps after only a year of use. The Snapper also stands on its end for storage so it takes up less room. My dad had one when I was a kid, it was a great mower.


EDIT: you also don't have to turn the wheel all the way around. It steers like a bike with handle bars. Turn the wheel to the right and the front wheels turn all the way right.
 
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I think you are skipping a very important consideration. It's not the steering so much that fatigues you. It's the "go" system that will tire you much faster IMO.

Having owned lighter lawn tractors and heavier-duty garden tractors in pretty much all configurations; Between the knees shift, fender shift, fender hydrostatic, foot pedal hydrostatic.. Plus dash controlled Case/Ingersol HyDrive... phew.. What I could say is a lawn/garden tractor with a foot pedal controlled hydrostat is the way to go. Once you go that route, you won't want anything else for mowing duty.

I also owned a decent quality ZTR. It was a Cub Z-Force with decent sized tires/wheels, a fabricated deck and serviceable drives. I didn't care for it much. I liked my Cub 2544 garden tractor better.

I'm not partial to any one brand, but IMO, what matters with this stuff is #1 the quality of the drive system #2 quality of the cutting deck and the components that support the deck.

Joel
 
Originally Posted By: meep
My home sits on a lot just smaller than a half acre. It's treed and odd-shaped with a narrow tail, and nooks and crannies everywhere. I am a diehard push-mower but I've accepted that needs to change due to some knee aging that's not getting any better.

It usually takes me 1.5 hours to mow with a 21" self-prop mower.



Given the "less than half acre" size and your description, I'd be surprised if you couldn't do the entire thing in around 30 minutes with a zero turn. Once you get used to them they are very, very quick-even the consumer grades compared to a standard rider. There is a learning curve with a zero turn. The first time I mowed with it the yard stripes looked like a drunken sailor mowed. But once you get used to the controls it's like a go cart with a lazy boy chair on top. Nimble and comfortable.

I can't speak for any of the brands/models you listed, but I can say that now that I've owned a zero turn for the last 3 or 4 seasons I'll never go back to a standard rider again. There are 6 houses on our stretch of road (about 3 miles), and in the last few years every one of us has upgraded to a zero turn.


Originally Posted By: bepperb

My opinion is that the ZTR's are a time saver for professionals and there isn't a reason a homeowner "needs" one to save them 10 minutes a week.


I'm a homeowner and my John Deere 757 saves me about 90 minutes every time I mow (versus my Ford N with a 60" finish mower). The time savings can be substantial, especially if your yard is measured in acres.

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
It's amazingly versatile, and it can tow a small trailer which the ZTR's can't.


Hogwash. I pull a spreader, trailer, aerator and power rake with my 757. On the occasion that I've looked at the consumer versions at Lowe's, many of the consumer grade zero turns have hitches on them. There's no reason why they can't be used to pull a utility trailer around a yard. It does take a bit of skill to back a trailer up though.
 
FWIW my Snapper RER has a 30" deck and a 34" turning radius. That's not small to me. Perhaps new models can turn more tightly. But it does steer like a bicycle (turn the wheel 90 degrees and that's the full range) and it's pretty easy to turn since the front tires are so small.

Hydrostatic would be nice for the complex areas which are a pain with the snapper drivetrain because you have to change speed by changing "gears" with your right arm while you steer with your left. At least you can shift on the fly. But the snapper RER will never have hydrostatic because a huge selling point of it is the straightforward simplicity of the current disc based drivetrain and because a hydrostatic drivetrain probably couldn't be turned on it's side all winter like how I store my snapper (tipped up on it's rear).
 
My brother and I fought when we were young about who HAS to mow the lawn; my father now has a zero turn and we fight about who GETs to mow the lawn when we visit my parents. My father likes it so much he mows the neighbors for free. It is FAST and fun.
 
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
...There is a learning curve with a zero turn. The first time I mowed with it the yard stripes looked like a drunken sailor mowed. But once you get used to the controls it's like a go cart with a lazy boy chair on top. Nimble and comfortable.


LOL! So true. I was all over the road on mine initially too.

The problem with mine was the combination of the machine and the very rough, hilly terrain I owned at the time (2 acres). It beat the heck out of me and didn't allow me to mow much faster than I could with a conventional rider. A higher quality machine would probably have smoothed things out for me considerably, so I can't fault ZTRs in general.

ZTRs are taking over the riding mower market for a reason- because you can cut a lot of grass fast.

And yes, high end models can push snow with a plow kit. Check youtube
 
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
It's amazingly versatile, and it can tow a small trailer which the ZTR's can't.


Hogwash. I pull a spreader, trailer, aerator and power rake with my 757. On the occasion that I've looked at the consumer versions at Lowe's, many of the consumer grade zero turns have hitches on them. There's no reason why they can't be used to pull a utility trailer around a yard. It does take a bit of skill to back a trailer up though.


Since they cost FOUR TIMES AS MUCH (!!!) I would expect them to outperform my cheap model. They don't. They also have notably higher repair costs and frequency. Mine has 55 hours now with nothing but an oil change and a blade swap because I'm fussy.

I mow 3 acres + in less than 3 hours and no ZTR is going to be appreciably faster, as my mower can make 10 mph easy and actually cut nice at that speed.

I always thought PR was more responsible than this, the wasting of money... tsk, tsk.
 
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Steve, I agree with you that you can't compare a JD 757 with an entry level ZTR that the OP is referring to.

Also- depending on your specific mowing conditions, a cheaper ZTR might not be faster than a conventional, foot pedal controlled hydrostatic riding mower with you at the controls.

I'm not knocking your Sears rider (I like them!), but I guarantee you an experienced operator on a high-end ZTR would rattle off your 3A in half the time it takes you on your rider. A really good ZTR (and operator) would leave it looking like the golf-green you'd expect too.

Like you say though.. for ~$8K, that baby BETTER!!

Joel
 
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most homeowner reviews for the ZTRs suggest 1/2 the time that a push mower took or 2/3 the time for a standard rider. really i'm not bothered by time, I *enjoy* the 90 minutes it takes me to mow.

I sat on everything HD had on the floor sunday. For ease of steering it came down to a ZTR or the cub cadet riders. The cubs had both fewer end-to-end revs of the wheel but also lightest steering resistance, at least sitting stills. But I can't trust that to correlate to moving performance either. The ariens were stiffer, the green riders were stiffer and had more slop in the linkage.

cubs get some pretty crummy reviews depending on where you look.

and it may still be too much rowing of the wheel in a pseudo-'H' shaped yard.

ZTRs. they seem to have friction cylinders on the levers.... felt like a rowing machine- like really stiff. Is that normal?

I plan to go to an ariens dealer if I can find one here (no luck so far!) HD staff has been very pushy lately--- almost obnoxious yesterday--- and I'd rather examine/test drive and talk to someone who knows about the product-- my kid was almost laughing as this guy *really* wanted to sell me a mower but couldn't even answer the most basic questions, so I just kept giving him a hard time, more questions, and he just kept coming back for more... but deep inside it was quite annoying.

All of the ZTRs had pretty stiff controls-- 1 ariens, one JD and one Toro. I know they dampen it to provide better control, but over-damped won't help make it nimble either???

Forgive me--- I'm new to riders, and this is a ****-load of cash.
 
Just be cautious of the reviews. My mower had some bad ones, but after inspecting it carefully at the store and finding the exact same components (engines, hydrostatic trans, etc.) under the hood I took a chance and ordered one.

When it was delivered I spent 45 minutes and went over it with a fine tooth comb, tightening some stuff and re-routing some wires and so forth. Then I took it out and have enjoyed it greatly.

Good luck with your search! It can be quite vexing dealing with the salespeople...
 
thanks steve--- that's good advice. going through it FIRST and re-doing factory assembly if sloppy or not dressed properly.

we used to do that when I was a mech in a high-end bike shop.... we'd dismantle and re-assemble every bike that came in from the factory, always found something not quite right, especially spokes, wheels.

found 1 local dealer besides home depot. hope to get out there some time this week.
 
A good used deere 757 is probably a better investment than a new box store model. When and if my old Wheel Horse dies (highly unlikely) a 757 would be my first choice. The big box store stuff just looks cheap to me. Let us know what you end up with.
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
It's amazingly versatile, and it can tow a small trailer which the ZTR's can't.


Hogwash. I pull a spreader, trailer, aerator and power rake with my 757. On the occasion that I've looked at the consumer versions at Lowe's, many of the consumer grade zero turns have hitches on them. There's no reason why they can't be used to pull a utility trailer around a yard. It does take a bit of skill to back a trailer up though.


Since they cost FOUR TIMES AS MUCH (!!!) I would expect them to outperform my cheap model. They don't. They also have notably higher repair costs and frequency. Mine has 55 hours now with nothing but an oil change and a blade swap because I'm fussy.

I mow 3 acres + in less than 3 hours and no ZTR is going to be appreciably faster, as my mower can make 10 mph easy and actually cut nice at that speed.

I always thought PR was more responsible than this, the wasting of money... tsk, tsk.


Once again, hogwash. You're pretending to be an expert in an area that you don't know a thing about.

If you want to chest thump I'll play. I mow 2 acres in an hour. 3 acres would take me 90 minutes-half your three hour time. Take your mittens off and do the math. My 757 mows extremely nicely at 12-13 MPH. It also has mulch on demand, so I simply flip a lever so I don't blow clippings on anything. And the seat has a built in suspension system, which makes it ride very comfortably.

My commercial 757 cost $2800 when I purchased it. I've replaced all the fluids-beyond that there have been no maintenance costs other than keeping the blade sharp (I'd never let them go 55 hours). While mine does have just over 1500 hours on it, the 757's are noted for going well beyond 3000 hours without issues. Since I use it for an average of an hour a week during the summer, it will give me many, many years of service. All for about the price you paid for your rider.

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
When it was delivered I spent 45 minutes and went over it with a fine tooth comb, tightening some stuff and re-routing some wires and so forth.


You're bragging about something on which the quality was so poor that you had to spend 45 minutes tightening "stuff" and rerouting wires? I'm certainly glad that I purchased a quality unit rather than something that needed work right out of the box.
 
^^^hahaha, now who's chest thumping????

Just to clear up your sadly misinformed tirade, my mower cost well under 2000 dollars delivered. Brand new with a warranty from Sears. With name brand motor and hydrostatic trans just like the expensive mowers out there I compared it to.

My pre flight was just that, a check up. Nothing appreciable was found, and the mower is performing great. Anyone who would buy something like this and just fire it up and drive off deserves whatever stupid thing happens to them.

If I'm not mistaken it seems you did something very similar to your old used mower when you purchased it. At 1500 hours I can bet there's more than one thing that needed tightening. You sound like someone praising their 60's car for goodness' sake!

Now, if you expect anyone here to believe ANY mower can mow a nice smooth cut on a real world lawn at 13 mph you are severely stunted by your shut in lifestyle. Even at 10 mph the bumps and lumps in a yard cause the deck to jump around, and the shorter the wheelbase the worse the ride. Same with cars, eh? And mulching is hardly a feature that is exclusive to Deere, same with a suspended seat!

My longer wheelbase 54 incher may not be as speedy, but it cuts like a fine razor, and it is every bit as good for my intended usage as your expensive relic, as yours is a commercial mower and neither of us use our mowers that way. I'll likely put less than 60 hours a year on mine even with extensive use as a truck hauling stuff across the yard.
 
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