Small 12V batteries. Keep charging?

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irv

Joined
Oct 8, 2006
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Location
Oshawa, Ont. Canada
I recently just replaced the small batteries in my leaf blower and whipper snipper and my past routine was to always leave these plugged in 24/7, even during winter.
Now, with the identical replacements, I am questioning if this is the right thing to do?

https://batteryclerk.ca/products/bl...vuoKU3gIV3brACh11twfUEAYYAiABEgJTw_D_BwE

https://batteryclerk.ca/products/bl...6kf2T3gIVA9vACh2NbQVHEAYYASABEgK6y_D_BwE

I am unsure of the age of these units but if I had to guess, they are at least 12 to 15 yrs old. I was going to replace both pieces until a friend suggested I check to see if I could get batteries/parts first.
I checked and sure enough I found some in Canada at a place called Battery Clerk.ca. Both batteries, delivered the next day even, cost me $51.14. Replacing these units would have likely cost $250-$350 txs in?

Being since these originals lasted me 12-15 yrs leaving them plugged in 24/7, should I continue doing that or should I unplug them for the winter months?
 
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Sounds like you are having good luck with them. I wouldn't change my routine now.
smile.gif


The NiCads they will self discharge much faster than the Li ones they have now.
 
I ruined a 18650 leaving it in a flashlight and putting it it's charging station, using up it's cycles. Not sure about Ni-Cads as they really feel like ancient technology now-a-days but I think they are not limited by charge cycles like a Li-Po battery is. I think they behave more like a lead acid in that heavy use it what kills them, not charge cycles.

When I were a lad, I remember my old man putting his Makita 7.2v stick batteries in the freezer to kill them completely before recharging them. I think he did this because they have memory, meaning that they have to be pretty close to dead when you recharge them to get full capacity. I think those were some of the last Ni-Cad power tool batteries I remember, but they could have easily been Ni-Mh.

Whatever you are doing, stick to it. 15-20 years is an insane battery lifespan, even if they sit for most of the year.
 
Originally Posted by SHOZ
Sounds like you are having good luck with them. I wouldn't change my routine now.
smile.gif


The NiCads they will self discharge much faster than the Li ones they have now.


Originally Posted by maxdustington
I ruined a 18650 leaving it in a flashlight and putting it it's charging station, using up it's cycles. Not sure about Ni-Cads as they really feel like ancient technology now-a-days but I think they are not limited by charge cycles like a Li-Po battery is. I think they behave more like a lead acid in that heavy use it what kills them, not charge cycles.

When I were a lad, I remember my old man putting his Makita 7.2v stick batteries in the freezer to kill them completely before recharging them. I think he did this because they have memory, meaning that they have to be pretty close to dead when you recharge them to get full capacity. I think those were some of the last Ni-Cad power tool batteries I remember, but they could have easily been Ni-Mh.

Whatever you are doing, stick to it. 15-20 years is an insane battery lifespan, even if they sit for most of the year.


Thanks guys. I am unsure what exactly came out of these units (make, kind, brand?) but I think I will continue just to leave them plugged in over the winter.
Both batteries came completely charged from Battery Clerk, and with the chance of me using either of them again this fall being rather slim, I thought I'd just leave them unplugged, but like Max mentioned, if I got 12-15 years out of my last ones, I'd be silly to change that routine.

Thanks guys.
coffee2.gif
 
Originally Posted by SHOZ
Sounds like you are having good luck with them. I wouldn't change my routine now.
smile.gif


The NiCads they will self discharge much faster than the Li ones they have now.


Sorry, just digging further into this, are you saying the new ones I just installed are different than those I replaced?

I just found this about the original batteries and was very surprised at the comments below.
https://www.ereplacementparts.com/battery-p-95738.html?osCsid=472psd25toa4ikargah2lj2cg3

In a nutshell, it sounds like they recommend unplugging them after they have been charged?

I am really confused now, as like I mentioned, these were plugged in 24/7 for 12 to 15 yrs.
 
Opposite of lead-acid batteries, Ni-Cads have longer shelf life if not kept fully charged. That's why new ones always need to be charged before use.
 
Originally Posted by CR94
Opposite of lead-acid batteries, Ni-Cads have longer shelf life if not kept fully charged. That's why new ones always need to be charged before use.


So the ones I replaced are identical to the originals?
21.gif

Sorry for the confusion, I just want to make sure?

I was lucky to find the original PDFs online. It reads this:
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/600297/Black-And-Decker-Cst1100.html?page=2#manual

"LED INDICATOR LIGHT The unit is equipped with a red LED charging indicator light, located on the upper left side of the unit (Figure 1). The indicator light will come on when the unit is properly connected to the charging base and the power plug is inserted into the electrical outlet. The light will remain on, so long as the unit is properly connected to the powered charging base. It is recommended to store the unit on the charger during the growing season, with the charger plugged in, to have the battery charged for the next use.TO CHARGE YOUR BATTERY, FOLLOW THE STEPS BELOW 1. Install the trimmer onto the charger bracket by positioning the handle cavity, shown in Figure 4 over the hook of the charger bracket.2. Rotate the trimmer down, keeping the hook engaged with the handle cavity, and position the charge port over the bracketʼs charge pin (Figure 4).3. Plug the charger into any standard 120 volt, 60Hz outlet. Charging will be automatically controlled until you remove the trimmer from the bracket.4. It is recommended that the trimmer be left on charge, during the growing season. For winter or other extended periods of storage, it is recommended that the unit be fully charged prior to storage.

Sounds like, prior to winter storage, ensure both batteries are fully charged then it will be OK to unplug them for the winter.

I think, now that I have read the above, and if the new batteries are the same as what I replaced, I will just leave them plugged in 24/7 like I have done in the past. If I am lucky enough to get another 10 yrs out of them at this point, I will be very happy. Heck, I will be happy if I get another 2-3!
cheers3.gif
 
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TL;DR - always store sealed lead acid batteries fully charged (13.0v or higher resting voltage), and for long-term storage (up to 3-4 months) disconnect from load (in your case make sure the unit isn't running (duh) and disconnect from the charger (read below for explanation of why). In your case charge 18-24 hours (48hrs max with unregulated power supply)



For sealed lead acid batteries, I do not recommend leaving them plugged into charger, especially if they are black and Decker. The batteries should be fully charged for 18-24 hours and then left unplugged for the winter - store indoors our outside, as long as the battery is fully charged no damage will occur from the cold - the rate of self discharge will actually be lower (though so will their effective capacity, so make sure there is no load hooked up (more general lead acid battery advice than your specific application)

Some of black and Decker SLA battery powered tools came with decent regulated power supplies that max out around 13.8 volts (measured at battery terminals, after current limiting resistor and blocking diodes)under load - this will not overcharge the battery. HOWEVER, I have seen a lot more unregulated power supplies being used that would actually peek up to about 14.5V (or higher) on a FULLY charged new battery - this added voltage will destroy an SLA much faster. Otherwise I have seen black and decker power supplies put out as high as 19v open circuit voltage (though considerably lower - 14.5ish) under actual load

It sounds like your units use a regulated supply for the charger, otherwise that battery would have been cooked in the much more average 2-5 years. Still I would recommend fully charging and then taking off the charger for seasonal storage.

My experience with these units is somewhat limited - I've mostly replaced batteries on the tube shaped sweeper/blower, with the occasional trimmer.

As far as the brand of battery or quality is concerned - I havent seen many AJC brand batteries out there, but I don't remember them being on my garbage list. The best battery I have found for the price point (as far as general purpose /non-application-optimed SLA) lately has been Powersonic, otherwise Enersys or Yuasa for average longest service life (depending on source/freshness) and lowest defect rate. Everything is built to a pricepoint - as long as you're not buying the cheapest batteries (lookin at you, Sigmastek!) off of eBay/Amazon or (shudder) Batteysharks, you're usually okay. I have seen plenty of counterfeit sealed lead acid and powersport batteries purchased online - usually coming in as scrap for recycling. Most of the time you can tell immediately by how much lighter they are then the battery they're replacing and inside I've found materials as cheap as polyfill (or some similar substance) taking up the bottom half of the battery with only half-length lead plates (gonna have to dig up my old work camera and find some pics)

Keep in mind everything is built to a price point, especially batteries. The original equipment battery could have been a very high quality extended life version with better cell separators and other more costly improvements. When the manufacturer can buy 100,000 batteries at a time, the cost difference becomes a lot less and they can afford to use a superior product - trying to find a TRULY equivalent replacement can become a costly, time consuming, and sometimes fruitless endeavor. Perfect example of this is portable car jumpstarters - you can get a GENERAL PURPOSE/deep cycle battery that is the equivalent or higher capacity, but it's not built the same way as the original that is optimized for high current output and even has thicker battery terminals or

Phew! 3 phone calls and one overly-long response to a simple question (and 1 ½ hours with the engine idling...) and now I can finally back out of my parking space and leave work.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by irv
Originally Posted by SHOZ
Sounds like you are having good luck with them. I wouldn't change my routine now.
smile.gif


The NiCads they will self discharge much faster than the Li ones they have now.


Originally Posted by maxdustington
I ruined a 18650 leaving it in a flashlight and putting it it's charging station, using up it's cycles. Not sure about Ni-Cads as they really feel like ancient technology now-a-days but I think they are not limited by charge cycles like a Li-Po battery is. I think they behave more like a lead acid in that heavy use it what kills them, not charge cycles.

When I were a lad, I remember my old man putting his Makita 7.2v stick batteries in the freezer to kill them completely before recharging them. I think he did this because they have memory, meaning that they have to be pretty close to dead when you recharge them to get full capacity. I think those were some of the last Ni-Cad power tool batteries I remember, but they could have easily been Ni-Mh.

Whatever you are doing, stick to it. 15-20 years is an insane battery lifespan, even if they sit for most of the year.


Thanks guys. I am unsure what exactly came out of these units (make, kind, brand?) but I think I will continue just to leave them plugged in over the winter.
Both batteries came completely charged from Battery Clerk, and with the chance of me using either of them again this fall being rather slim, I thought I'd just leave them unplugged, but like Max mentioned, if I got 12-15 years out of my last ones, I'd be silly to change that routine.

Thanks guys.
coffee2.gif



Sorry guys, meant to use the Beer Cheers above, not the Coffee sipper.
blush.gif
 
Originally Posted by SHOZ
What is the goal? Do you want longer life out of them??????


That's what I'd prefer, if possible.

I like the ease of use, the brackets these units come with compared to the newer cordless units that are now available. These, you just hang on their brackets and forget about them.
No batteries to remove, no seperate charger, etc.

What do you suggest?
 
Originally Posted by HorseThief
TL;DR - always store sealed lead acid batteries fully charged (13.0v or higher resting voltage), and for long-term storage (up to 3-4 months) disconnect from load (in your case make sure the unit isn't running (duh) and disconnect from the charger (read below for explanation of why). In your case charge 18-24 hours (48hrs max with unregulated power supply)



For sealed lead acid batteries, I do not recommend leaving them plugged into charger, especially if they are black and Decker. The batteries should be fully charged for 18-24 hours and then left unplugged for the winter - store indoors our outside, as long as the battery is fully charged no damage will occur from the cold - the rate of self discharge will actually be lower (though so will their effective capacity, so make sure there is no load hooked up (more general lead acid battery advice than your specific application)

Some of black and Decker SLA battery powered tools came with decent regulated power supplies that max out around 13.8 volts (measured at battery terminals, after current limiting resistor and blocking diodes)under load - this will not overcharge the battery. HOWEVER, I have seen a lot more unregulated power supplies being used that would actually peek up to about 14.5V (or higher) on a FULLY charged new battery - this added voltage will destroy an SLA much faster. Otherwise I have seen black and decker power supplies put out as high as 19v open circuit voltage (though considerably lower - 14.5ish) under actual load

It sounds like your units use a regulated supply for the charger, otherwise that battery would have been cooked in the much more average 2-5 years. Still I would recommend fully charging and then taking off the charger for seasonal storage.

My experience with these units is somewhat limited - I've mostly replaced batteries on the tube shaped sweeper/blower, with the occasional trimmer.

As far as the brand of battery or quality is concerned - I havent seen many AJC brand batteries out there, but I don't remember them being on my garbage list. The best battery I have found for the price point (as far as general purpose /non-application-optimed SLA) lately has been Powersonic, otherwise Enersys or Yuasa for average longest service life (depending on source/freshness) and lowest defect rate. Everything is built to a pricepoint - as long as you're not buying the cheapest batteries (lookin at you, Sigmastek!) off of eBay/Amazon or (shudder) Batteysharks, you're usually okay. I have seen plenty of counterfeit sealed lead acid and powersport batteries purchased online - usually coming in as scrap for recycling. Most of the time you can tell immediately by how much lighter they are then the battery they're replacing and inside I've found materials as cheap as polyfill (or some similar substance) taking up the bottom half of the battery with only half-length lead plates (gonna have to dig up my old work camera and find some pics)

Keep in mind everything is built to a price point, especially batteries. The original equipment battery could have been a very high quality extended life version with better cell separators and other more costly improvements. When the manufacturer can buy 100,000 batteries at a time, the cost difference becomes a lot less and they can afford to use a superior product - trying to find a TRULY equivalent replacement can become a costly, time consuming, and sometimes fruitless endeavor. Perfect example of this is portable car jumpstarters - you can get a GENERAL PURPOSE/deep cycle battery that is the equivalent or higher capacity, but it's not built the same way as the original that is optimized for high current output and even has thicker battery terminals or

Phew! 3 phone calls and one overly-long response to a simple question (and 1 ½ hours with the engine idling...) and now I can finally back out of my parking space and leave work.


Thanks for taking the time to write all that, HorseThief.
cheers3.gif


I will ensure they get a good charge and will unplug them sometime tomorrow night and forget about them until the spring.
 
Originally Posted by SHOZ
I would continue to do as you do.


I wish the batteries were easier to get at so I could keep an eye on them with a voltmeter throughout the winter.

I am now confused about whether to keep them plugged in or not?

I had good luck doing that with the last set of batteries but I am unsure if the replacements are as good?

Decisions, decisions.
crazy2.gif
 
your tools have sealed lead acid batteries.
these want to be fully charged at all times.
sounds like your chargers have decent float voltage control if the originals lasted this long.
so carry on as usual.
 
it is far more likely that the battery was poor quality or the charger poorly designed.
did the battery have fire anywhere in its name?
even the cheapest li-ion charger chips(tp4056) wont do that.
they only restart the charge if the cell drops below 3.9v.
even if the light was left on as long as charge rate exceeded the load it would float at 4.2v.
Originally Posted by maxdustington
I ruined a 18650 leaving it in a flashlight and putting it it's charging station, using up it's cycles.
 
Originally Posted by kc8adu
your tools have sealed lead acid batteries.
these want to be fully charged at all times.
sounds like your chargers have decent float voltage control if the originals lasted this long.
so carry on as usual.


That's what I have decided to do. I assume these new batteries are a bit different (manu) but basically still the same kind so seeing as I had great luck with the stock/original ones, I decided I wouldn't change a thing as the stockers lasted me a very long time, imo.
 
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