Yeah, 90, I bought a case of the 20W50 Havoline at Advance myself.
SM oil- is it safe?
- Thread starter lamont cranston
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better base stock for dino's and more advanved additive package. We do not know though if they are actualy better though! You would not catch me putting SM GF4 oil in a flat tappet high lift triple valve spring beat at all!!!
Most of todays cars have relatively gentle valve geometry, low knose loading, roler rocker and roller lifter or have very refined cam followers some of wich are rolloerized and use concave cam profiles etc.....This means todays designs have far less shearing forces on surfaces in the valve train! This means they can use far less EP additives and not kill the engine! In the past a GM 3.8 modifed by putting non-roller lifter adn rocker was used in part of the testing but not any more!It is not just ZDDP though! The reduction of phosphorus is going to affect longterm timeing chain life!
Do not get me wrong I am all for more antimony,boron,amines and synthetic esters but lets not throw the baby out with the bath water. I am probably going to become a long time user of Specialty Formulations SX-UP reguardless of what oil I use other then maybe Redline!
Most of todays cars have relatively gentle valve geometry, low knose loading, roler rocker and roller lifter or have very refined cam followers some of wich are rolloerized and use concave cam profiles etc.....This means todays designs have far less shearing forces on surfaces in the valve train! This means they can use far less EP additives and not kill the engine! In the past a GM 3.8 modifed by putting non-roller lifter adn rocker was used in part of the testing but not any more!It is not just ZDDP though! The reduction of phosphorus is going to affect longterm timeing chain life!
Do not get me wrong I am all for more antimony,boron,amines and synthetic esters but lets not throw the baby out with the bath water. I am probably going to become a long time user of Specialty Formulations SX-UP reguardless of what oil I use other then maybe Redline!
Meeting the GF-4 specifications is much tougher than meeting GF-3 and the oils are generally much better. Some of the newer additive technologies don't require the high additive "treat" levels of the past. I"m even seeing some changes with the Amsoil formulations and I think a GF-4 compatable, 25,000 mile/1 year oil is doable in the near future.
The Lubrizol stuff that Buster cited is very interesting - that's where the industry is headed.
TS
The Lubrizol stuff that Buster cited is very interesting - that's where the industry is headed.
TS
Havoline is awesome oil and my fords and pontiac love it, However, my civic really prefers pennzoil or mobil....just seems to run better...maybe it doesn't like the havoline very low vis range, not sure
Should have you one in about 8 or 10 months. Got the Blackstone test kits in my garage right now. New fill of Penzoil 10w30 GF-4/SM last month (after taking out the GC) in my 1999 Northstar Cadillac. 32 of those flat tappet suckers! This past week I set the cruise on 80 mph in Daytona, didn't take it off until Savannah! Ran great! 1850 miles round trip...total oil usage 4 Oz. 65000 miles now. Any special requests on the type/parameters to get on the analysis?
I didn't think anything that recent would be using a flat tappet cam. Not even my '88 Mustang 5.0 has one. Otherwise I would try SM oil it and get a sample.
Here are the SM & SJ/SL standards for comparison:
http://www.infineum.com/information/api-passenger-sm-2004.html
http://www.infineum.com/information/api-passenger-sj-sl-2004.html
The SM standard is tougher than the previous standards both for engine wear and keeping the oil in good condition.
Zinc and phosphorus in oil are not wonderful things. The zinc just comes along as part of the package with zinc dialkyldithiophosphate, an antiwear and antioxidant agent. Long-term, phosphorus poisons catalytic converters.
I'm sticking with SM oils right out of the jug. I'm not adding any snake oil unless Terry and Molekule bless it.
Ken
http://www.infineum.com/information/api-passenger-sm-2004.html
http://www.infineum.com/information/api-passenger-sj-sl-2004.html
The SM standard is tougher than the previous standards both for engine wear and keeping the oil in good condition.
Zinc and phosphorus in oil are not wonderful things. The zinc just comes along as part of the package with zinc dialkyldithiophosphate, an antiwear and antioxidant agent. Long-term, phosphorus poisons catalytic converters.
I'm sticking with SM oils right out of the jug. I'm not adding any snake oil unless Terry and Molekule bless it.
Ken
Sure. Actually I was planning on running Pennzoil HM 10w-40 in my '89 BMW 325is next anyway. If it is anything like this(I hope so actually): http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000266quote:
Originally posted by sbc350gearhead:
I still would like to see some UOA's on SM oil in an engine with a flat tappet cam. Any takers?
It should satisfy your requirements nicely(mine is dated 11/24/04).
I guess I could return it for some Havoline 10w-40 SM instead if need be. But I was hoping the HM oil would help with consumption. (already did the ARX which helped other things, I know it cleaned the VS seals too because I already went thru the increased leakage phase. Now I am just back to "normal").
This is an overhead cam engine (4 of course) but Caddy did not make the move to rollers until 2000 M/Y. I'm pretty sure this is true, but will check futher if there is still an intrest. This engine has the max on the GMOLM set at 10,000 miles (approx). When the shear causing components (flat cam followers) were eliminated in the 2000 model, and roller followers installed, the max on the GMOLM was changed to (approx) 18,000 miles. On the '99, this is one reason why the redline is set at 6200 RPM, instead of the current 6800.
I have a 90 Toyota 4 runner with 3.0L v6. I tow a 2500 lb boat during the summer. It gets up to 95 often here from june to sept. I drive a lot of interstate, plus a lot of stop and go city traffic. My OHC engine has been modified in that the cam has been reground so its profile is a lot steeper than stock. This makes the valves stay closed longer, snap open quick, and close fast. I used the pennzoil 5w 30 sm oil during the winter with what seemed like good results. I was looking to using it for summer, but im not sure. Would a HDEO oil like delvac be a better choice?
Hi JohnnyG!
This is late, but maybe it's worth it. The Northstar has 4 cams that act directly on the 32 valve "bucket-style" tappets, so technically, yes it's a "flat tappet" valvetrain system. Many OHC engines are like this. The 2000 engines did move to a roller-follower type valvetrain.
It's my understanding that the GMOLM is set for 7,500 miles on the 93-99 generation Northstar and at 10,000 miles on the 2000+ generation Northstar. The redesigned valvetrain is a major factor there. The GMOLM is optimized for each engine...it's not a one-size-fits-all deal.
I use the GMOLM on my '97 Seville with the Northstar and typical OCIs are in the 4000-7000 range. I've ran conventional 10w30 oil exclusively. Mostly Valvoline, but in the last few years, Pennzoil. 147,000 miles and not even a cam cover has been off this engine. Peering through the oil fill hole into the head reveals a golden brown surface with no signs of buildup.
This is late, but maybe it's worth it. The Northstar has 4 cams that act directly on the 32 valve "bucket-style" tappets, so technically, yes it's a "flat tappet" valvetrain system. Many OHC engines are like this. The 2000 engines did move to a roller-follower type valvetrain.
It's my understanding that the GMOLM is set for 7,500 miles on the 93-99 generation Northstar and at 10,000 miles on the 2000+ generation Northstar. The redesigned valvetrain is a major factor there. The GMOLM is optimized for each engine...it's not a one-size-fits-all deal.
I use the GMOLM on my '97 Seville with the Northstar and typical OCIs are in the 4000-7000 range. I've ran conventional 10w30 oil exclusively. Mostly Valvoline, but in the last few years, Pennzoil. 147,000 miles and not even a cam cover has been off this engine. Peering through the oil fill hole into the head reveals a golden brown surface with no signs of buildup.
Used oil anaysis should tell us how the SM oils are doing. Thanks to Blackstone and the members here at BITOG, I feel quite comfortable using good old Havoline dino at 4-5K intervals.
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