Silly Question - why can't oil pan/water pump be designed to spin-on?

[TumblrDucks]

I can't curb my curious to not asking this silly question any longer lol! After watching many auto repair memes where bad part with leaky gasket ruined everything, or customer sealed oil pan like a monster but still leaking nevertheless. So why can't car manufactures design a round-shape water pump or oil pan that can spin-on, with hand tight torque requirement, and rubber O-ring preinstalled? Now we reduce the cost for bolts, expensive metal gaskets, power tools and users have less chance to do the job wrong.

 

[KGMtech]

Round cartridge style WP exist on the Nissan VQ engine, but you have to relax the timing chain and remove a panel on the timing cover to get tp the pump. I think the answer to your question is that designers are more motivated by power & efficiency, followed by how much space is needed. Ease of maintenance is a lot lower on the list of needs.

 

[MRC01]

... Ease of maintenance is a lot lower on the list of needs.

Especially for something like a water pump that never gets serviced and only gets replaced every 10 years / 100k miles.

 

[tom slick]

What happens when that easy to install screw on WP is siezed in the block during removal?

 

[Chris142]

Cadillac tried that with the Northstar. It's a real pain to do. I'll stick with bolts

 

[Timmastertech]

As Chris142 said, the Cadillac Northstar water pump mounts in a housing and rotates about 1/6 turn to lock in. They leak and the pumps used to corrode into the housing.

 

[MSCH]

I can't curb my curious to not asking this silly question any longer lol! After watching many auto repair memes where bad part with leaky gasket ruined everything, or customer sealed oil pan like a monster but still leaking nevertheless. So why can't car manufactures design a round-shape water pump or oil pan that can spin-on, with hand tight torque requirement, and rubber O-ring preinstalled? Now we reduce the cost for bolts, expensive metal gaskets, power tools and users have less chance to do the job wrong.

ever seen the water pump on a Cummins B series?
two bolts, O ring for a seal and you push it into the block,.
answer is they can... but they don't, for whatever reason

 

[TumblrDucks]

ever seen the water pump on a Cummins B series?
two bolts, O ring for a seal and you push it into the block,.
answer is they can... but they don't, for whatever reason View attachment 181340

Thanks. I know little about motor design history, glad to know it is possible.

 

[JohnnyG]

As Chris142 said, the Cadillac Northstar water pump mounts in a housing and rotates about 1/6 turn to lock in. They leak and the pumps used to corrode into the housing.

If Dexcool wasn't changed or green fluid installed.

 

[MSCH]

Thanks. I know little about motor design history, glad to know it is possible.

honestly, the old small bock Chevy had a really simple water pump too..
but some of the stuff the engineers do makes you shake your head and think why?

I'll give a you a different one... Ram /Cummins from 2013 to 2018 had a spin on primary fuel filter under the truck..
basically a chunk fuel filter that doubles as a water separator.. spins on..

2019 and up the knuckleheads went ahead and put a cartridge type fuel filter under the truck..
now you have to drain it and disassemble the thing while laying under the truck with fuel dripping on you.
they effectively made it more difficult to replace the fuel filter and for no apparent reason

 

[Allaned]

honestly, the old small bock Chevy had a really simple water pump too..
but some of the stuff the engineers do makes you shake your head and think why?

I'll give a you a different one... Ram /Cummins from 2013 to 2018 had a spin on primary fuel filter under the truck..
basically a chunk fuel filter that doubles as a water separator.. spins on..

2019 and up the knuckleheads went ahead and put a cartridge type fuel filter under the truck..
now you have to drain it and disassemble the thing while laying under the truck with fuel dripping on you.
they effectively made it more difficult to replace the fuel filter and for no apparent reason

Boat motors have hand screwed on fuel filters that separate water from fuel. Annual service for my Yamaha outboard

 

[Propflux01]

honestly, the old small bock Chevy had a really simple water pump too..
but some of the stuff the engineers do makes you shake your head and think why?

I'll give a you a different one... Ram /Cummins from 2013 to 2018 had a spin on primary fuel filter under the truck..
basically a chunk fuel filter that doubles as a water separator.. spins on..

2019 and up the knuckleheads went ahead and put a cartridge type fuel filter under the truck..
now you have to drain it and disassemble the thing while laying under the truck with fuel dripping on you.
they effectively made it more difficult to replace the fuel filter and for no apparent reason

What’s funny about that, it take a 307 sbc. 4 bolts. 307 buick, half the front of the engine. Same company, GM. Yup, shaking my head!

 

[paulo57509]

Chevy V8 timing covers were a pain if you did it by the book, by removing the oil pan. There are work-arounds but if you're not versed in doing it, it can result in bigger pain (leakage).

I've found that most all harmonic balancers on Pontiac V8's were easy to remove; remove the bolt and just slide it off by hand.

This has to be one of the worst locations for a starter. I get why Toyota put it there, I just don't like it:

Getting to it is one thing. Getting to the mounting bolts is another (I was not quite there yet). Someone here said that book rate is 14 hours labor to R&R, which I found is about right.

 

[Timmastertech]

If Dexcool wasn't changed or green fluid installed.

Those northstars leaked enough that they usually got a coolant change every 5 years if they needed it or not

 

[dumkid]

Rtv oil pans aren't that bad if you know what you're doing and have a wire wheel attachment for your drill. Wire wheel the part of the pan that comes off, gently scrape the bottom of the block or upper pan, put THE RIGHT AMOUNT of rtv, not the whole tube, slap it together and wait a day for it to dry. None of the oil pans that I've done have leaked as far as I know

 

[Skippy722]

Cutting threads is more expensive than drilling or punching holes. You can have quite a bit of “slop” or clearance in a bolt hole and it’ll still work just fine, threads have far less before they either just won’t work or will be super sloppy/prone to leaking or prone to cross threading.

 

[JohnnyG]

Those northstars leaked enough that they usually got a coolant change every 5 years if they needed it or not

Never had one leak. Owned for 12 years.

 

[DGXR]

If 90% of engine wear occurs at start-up, why can't engine oiling systems be designed with a pre-start pressurizing system? So oil pressure is there before the starter even moves?