Sig Over Glock?...... Not So Fast.

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Originally Posted By: BalticBob
Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: Bgallagher
Never been a big glock fan. I don't put my life in my hands like our LEOs but I always preferred the feel of a sig personally.

Personal preference for sure.

Always more to the story but the fact is (seems to be) that Sig followed the problems, acknowledged there were problems and appeared to be unable to solve the problem. If your Sig has proved reliable great..it probabl is andyou should contionue to carry a reliable proven firearm..no question.

More law agencies, militiaries, knowledgle firearm users, and instructors trust their jlives with Glocks. I jdo. My 43 has many thousands of rounds through it with no failures. My other two Glocks (26, 42) are equallyle. Took the 42 150 rounds to become reliable. It has now 1500 rounds with no failures. To me a firarm must have at least 1000 rounds through it with no failures...I don't care what brand it is.




A Glock is worn out after a 1000 rounds through it.
Any brand revolver only needs 6 rounds through it to be considered reliable.

Say what ? A Glock worn out at 1000 rounds? That's not even broken in
 
Originally Posted By: BalticBob

A Glock is worn out after a 1000 rounds through it.
Any brand revolver only needs 6 rounds through it to be considered reliable.

LOL..you have discredited yourself in the past and here are two more statements to add. Best to stick to engine oil.

Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: BalticBob
A Glock is worn out after a 1000 rounds through it.


I'm assuming you're being sarcastic.

Known Glock hater. He previously stated he would never trust his life to a Glock
 
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Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: BalticBob

A Glock is worn out after a 1000 rounds through it.
Any brand revolver only needs 6 rounds through it to be considered reliable.

LOL..you have discredited yourself in the past and here are two more statements to add. Best to stick to engine oil.

Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: BalticBob
A Glock is worn out after a 1000 rounds through it.


I'm assuming you're being sarcastic.

Known Glock hater. He previously stated he would never trust his life to a Glock



As stated before, I do not hate Glocks.
You use engine oil to lube your Glocks?
Syn or dino?
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: BalticBob
A Glock is worn out after a 1000 rounds through it.


I'm assuming you're being sarcastic.


Yes, I am, some bait sooooo easy.

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Originally Posted By: E150GT
I always heard sig were some of the best. I bought a sig P238 years back. To me it was beautiful. Looked like a baby 1911. I didn't own it very long. It was so unreliable and trying to deal with sig about it was a real pain. Never bought another sign since


Similar experience with a Sig P220 in 1995. Went back twice to Sig for jamming/stovepipe problems. Finally gave up and traded it in. Went back to my S&W 645 and my G21.
 
Originally Posted By: L_Sludger
The NJSP is not a model agency to begin with. There's probably some kind of shenanigans going on here. Glock may be involved.


You might want to school up a bit sonny. NJSP is one of the most highly trained, has the toughest academy from both a physical and academic standpoint.
They do have some history of less than stellar sidearm choices.
 
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Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: Bgallagher
Never been a big glock fan. I don't put my life in my hands like our LEOs but I always preferred the feel of a sig personally.

Personal preference for sure.

Always more to the story but the fact is (seems to be) that Sig followed the problems, acknowledged there were problems and appeared to be unable to solve the problem. If your Sig has proved reliable great..it probabl is andyou should contionue to carry a reliable proven firearm..no question.

More law agencies, militiaries, knowledgle firearm users, and instructors trust their jlives with Glocks. I jdo. My 43 has many thousands of rounds through it with no failures. My other two Glocks (26, 42) are equallyle. Took the 42 150 rounds to become reliable. It has now 1500 rounds with no failures. To me a firarm must have at least 1000 rounds through it with no failures...I don't care what brand it is.



The most significant reason LE depts, (not sure about "militaries"} carry Glocks is because of price.

You also just said you had a number of magazine failures with your Glock, using factory mags. Now it has 1500 trouble free rounds?
 
Huh, guess I used too many forbidden words in my first reply post since it disappeared.

Darn decimal points...thanks for the correction on my math. At that volume there should have been more of a discount.
 
These articles are interesting but I always suspect there is at least something slightly fishy going on.

I read an article on police one probably a year or so ago about a larger PD down south (can't remember which one) that was suing Glock over failures and reliability problems with their G22's. The department reported pins walking out, parts breaking and multiple jams with little to no help from Glock. If I recall correctly, Glock replaced almost every pistol but the PD still reported problems so they quickly switched over to SIG 226's and reported being very happy with them.

So far in my career I have carried the Beretta 92, Sig 226 and Glock 21 in that order. To me, they were all good guns and I trust my life to all of them but they all have their quirks. Most of the problems with the guns I was issued were maintenance related, with worn out springs being the most common. These types of issues are almost always made worse by agencies having either no or too few good armorers, which is a very common thing these days. So many departments just have an "Ah, send it back" attitude toward duty weapons which is a huge waste of time and resources, IMO.

For example, my department's GEN 4 Glock 21's are only about 2 years old and we are already seeing a few worn out mag springs. The mags are way too easy to load and the slide occasionally out runs the magazine towards the end of the mag which causes a failure to feed. Does that mean Glock is junk? Does it mean we should immediately trade them in? No, that is just one of the quirks with Glock pistols, especially the 45's. The mag springs wear out fairly quickly. The solution, order a bunch of spare springs and keep them on hand. When in doubt, swap'em out, No big deal. Any good armorer should know how to order extra mag springs and swap them when the time comes. IMO, it's not really the gun's fault, as almost no firearms design is completely perfect and without some sort of issues. Instead, most departments would rather have minimal to no well trained armorers, cry about the problems they have, send the guns back and end up wasting tax payer dollars trading the guns in every 3-4 years (early) instead of just doing some old fashioned maintenance and part swapping.
 
Originally Posted By: JDM396
The most significant reason LE depts, (not sure about "militaries"} carry Glocks is because of price.


You can honestly say that about ANY weapon in ANY law enforcement or military arsenal. When you're buying what amounts to tens of thousands of weapons, (police), to hundreds of thousands of weapons, (military), not to mention spare parts, cost is always the major mitigating factor. These outfits rarely select the supposed "best weapon available", (whatever that is), directly because of cost. Glock is able to reduce their prices, and still turn a substantial profit on all of their law enforcement and military deals.
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: JDM396
The most significant reason LE depts, (not sure about "militaries"} carry Glocks is because of price.


You can honestly say that about ANY weapon in ANY law enforcement or military arsenal. When you're buying what amounts to tens of thousands of weapons, (police), to hundreds of thousands of weapons, (military), not to mention spare parts, cost is always the major mitigating factor. These outfits rarely select the supposed "best weapon available", (whatever that is), directly because of cost. Glock is able to reduce their prices, and still turn a substantial profit on all of their law enforcement and military deals.


No you can't, not here and in Texas speaking from experience. OHP ran Sig P series in .357sig for years. That wasn't because of price lol. Also know of several smaller police depts. that ran more expensive platforms than Glock. I get why some agencies do it, but it's really no notch in the belt in terms of validation.
 
Originally Posted By: Win
Almost $300 / holster.

Great stewards of public money.

Not.

who makes the holster, wow, I mean, I want one, who is going to pay for it?
 
Originally Posted By: JDM396
Also know of several smaller police depts. that ran more expensive platforms than Glock.


Smaller being the key word in that sentence. It doesn't mean squat what these nickel and dime, 15 man outfits spend on weapons. When you have a large inner city police force, it does. The NYPD for example, is the biggest police force in the country, with over 34,000 uniformed officers. That's larger than the armies in many small countries. Cost MATTERS..... A LOT.
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: JDM396
Also know of several smaller police depts. that ran more expensive platforms than Glock.


Smaller being the key word in that sentence. It doesn't mean squat what these nickel and dime, 15 man outfits spend on weapons. When you have a large inner city police force, it does. The NYPD for example, is the biggest police force in the country, with over 34,000 uniformed officers. That's larger than the armies in many small countries. Cost MATTERS..... A LOT.



You said "ANY" ......are you backtracking? Cost matters in NY for sure with 34,000 and naturally, firearm performance or considerations are on the back burner. It's NY. However, when an LE agency seems to have more input, they don't necessarily go with the cheapest, (usually Glock) because many LE agencies such as OHP and THP use something else (some in .357sig), and hopefully it's realized that these are much bigger than 15 men.
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Point remains that there are always other logistics and variables to consider with any given agency. The fact that they went with Glock or didn't go with Glock isn't a plus or minus for the common man. Especially considering Glocks have had issues with large depts. just like the Sigs in this article. Several had to turn their 3rd Gen G22s back in because they wouldn't run right with a WML, in which I had the same problem.
 
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Originally Posted By: Win
Almost $300 / holster.

Great stewards of public money.

Not.


They could have put in a special order for the P7. Bought a used P7M8 that NJSP had used. They were expensive.
 
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
So whats for dinner?
Sounds like a lukewarm portion of Sig served over Glock.
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Originally Posted By: billt460

Smaller being the key word in that sentence. It doesn't mean squat what these nickel and dime, 15 man outfits spend on weapons. When you have a large inner city police force, it does. The NYPD for example, is the biggest police force in the country, with over 34,000 uniformed officers. That's larger than the armies in many small countries. Cost MATTERS..... A LOT.



NYPD officers buy their own sidearms, either through the department or through authorized dealers. Currently, the option is one of three 9mm service pistols: SIG 226 DAO, Glock 17/19, and the older S&W 5946 that is grandfathered in for those who bought them when they hired in. Officers who purchased revolvers prior to the transition to semi-automatic pistols on January 1, 1994, are "grandfathered" and if so can choose to continue to carry a revolver as a duty weapon.

NYPD approved off duty carry are the Glock 26, S&W 3914 DAO, S&W 3953TSW, S&W M640 (.38 revolver), SIG P239 DAO, Springfield XDS, S&W M&P Shield a couple of others that I can't think of at the moment. Officers may also carry their duty sidearm as off-duty if they opt to.

While in the academy, recruits get to shoot samples of all the 'approved' guns and when they graduate, they pick the one the city is going to charge them for.

This info is from my neighbor who retired in 2015 after 20 yrs from NYPD after surviving 9/11 and earning a medical disability, and promptly got the you-know-what out of NY. He opted for the Glock 19 and later acquired a Glock 26 for off duty. Figure he's about as reliable as they get.
 
Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
So whats for dinner?
Sounds like a lukewarm portion of Sig served over Glock.
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A Glock between a fresh wheat bun makes a great "slider"
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