Sig Over Glock?...... Not So Fast.

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billt460

billt460

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https://bearingarms.com/beth-b/2017/05/18/sig-sauer-gun-malfunctions/

This is not the kind of advertising a gun company needs.

"A $2.5 million lawsuit has been brought against firearms manufacturer Sig Sauer by the New Jersey State Police....."

"The state police spent $1.7 million for 3,000 Sig Sauer P229s and another $865,000 on holsters from another company. The agency wishes to be reimbursed for both costs, which they are out of....."

"The state police ended up buying Glock 17’s with SafariLand holsters....."
 
Interesting. Isn't the 229DAK used by a lot of folks, including USCG? There must be statistics on the 229 somewhere.

To me this seems like drumming up drama over a lemon law case. No doubt the guns were unfit, but perhaps the suit is procedural or really due to holster reimbursement? Id have a hard time believing that Sig wouldn't take back the guns after all that; but there's still a lot of money in holsters on the table.
 
I always heard sig were some of the best. I bought a sig P238 years back. To me it was beautiful. Looked like a baby 1911. I didn't own it very long. It was so unreliable and trying to deal with sig about it was a real pain. Never bought another sign since
 
Never been a big glock fan. I don't put my life in my hands like our LEOs but I always preferred the feel of a sig personally.
 
Originally Posted By: Bgallagher
Never been a big glock fan. I don't put my life in my hands like our LEOs but I always preferred the feel of a sig personally.


I had to sand down the grip on my G22 to fit my hand.
 
Originally Posted By: Bgallagher
Never been a big glock fan. I don't put my life in my hands like our LEOs but I always preferred the feel of a sig personally.

Personal preference for sure.

Always more to the story but the fact is (seems to be) that Sig followed the problems, acknowledged there were problems and appeared to be unable to solve the problem. If your Sig has proved reliable great..it probabl is andyou should contionue to carry a reliable proven firearm..no question.

More law agencies, militiaries, knowledgle firearm users, and instructors trust their jlives with Glocks. I jdo. My 43 has many thousands of rounds through it with no failures. My other two Glocks (26, 42) are equallyle. Took the 42 150 rounds to become reliable. It has now 1500 rounds with no failures. To me a firarm must have at least 1000 rounds through it with no failures...I don't care what brand it is.
 
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Originally Posted By: Al
Always more to the story but the fact is (seems to be) that Sig followed the problems, acknowledged there were problems and appeared to be unable to solve the problem.


That's what got me the most. They don't seem capable of fixing it. If it were a simple case of defective parts, and they rectified the problem by identifying and replacing them, then all is well and good. That can happen to any manufacturer of durable goods. How many motor vehicles get recalled and fixed every year? This however, seems like more of a case of, "Cash For Clunkers".
 
Originally Posted By: Win
Almost $300 / holster.

Great stewards of public money.

Not.


Yeah, really. Good catch on that one. $865,000.00 for 3,000 holsters divides out to $288.33 per holster. Nowhere near the $10K toilet seat, but enough to question, that's for sure. Sig shouldn't get stuck with that one.
 
Kind of harkens back to the Glock 22 days where Glock had to buy back pistols from a number of agencies because they could not sort the problem out. The Gen 4 Glock 17, 22, 23, and 19 pistols also had some mainspring calibration issues exacerbated by limp-wristing. No matter how low the part count, semi-automatic pistols especially are always dependent on user body geometry and training to some extent. No pistol will work for everyone, so it's generally a matter of lowest common denominator of misery.

And yeah, holy smokes that holster price - that's the cost of a duty Glock and a holster, wow. What's next, Mercedes E class police package cruisers?
 
I am not aware of the specific issue with their 229 pistols, but I did work for any agency that issued 226 pistols. And honestly, Sig pistols do require more maintenance and know how to keep them running properly than just about any other plastic fantastic pistol. For non-gun folks, I truly believe that they are probably not the best choice. I base this on things I have seen with my own eyes.

1) They require a lot of lubrication. Best case lube (for my climate) is grease. I have seen a TON of guns show up at qualification day that are bone dry. Honestly, about 50% are bone dry, 40% are marginally lubed, and only about 8% are lubed properly, while 2% are way over lubricated.

2) Sig for some reason uses or has used a parkerized mag. New out of the box, with no cleaning or lubrication, these things suck. They jam on the range at least 25% of the time. Non gun folks just expect them to work out of the box, when in reality, they need disassembled, sprayed down with an aerosol lubricant, and HEAVILY wiped clean of the sandpaper like parkerization. Once they are cleaned out, these mags work perfectly. I left my parkerized mags in the box and procured Sig mags with the anti-friction coating, which were Sigs best mags.

3) The springs have a life cycle. Don't expect the gun you were issued 20 years ago to have in-spec springs. These guns need rebuilt/new springs at least every 7 years or so.
 
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
I am not aware of the specific issue with their 229 pistols, but I did work for any agency that issued 226 pistols. And honestly, Sig pistols do require more maintenance and know how to keep them running properly than just about any other plastic fantastic pistol. For non-gun folks, I truly believe that they are probably not the best choice. I base this on things I have seen with my own eyes.

1) They require a lot of lubrication. Best case lube (for my climate) is grease. I have seen a TON of guns show up at qualification day that are bone dry. Honestly, about 50% are bone dry, 40% are marginally lubed, and only about 8% are lubed properly, while 2% are way over lubricated.

2) Sig for some reason uses or has used a parkerized mag. New out of the box, with no cleaning or lubrication, these things suck. They jam on the range at least 25% of the time. Non gun folks just expect them to work out of the box, when in reality, they need disassembled, sprayed down with an aerosol lubricant, and HEAVILY wiped clean of the sandpaper like parkerization. Once they are cleaned out, these mags work perfectly. I left my parkerized mags in the box and procured Sig mags with the anti-friction coating, which were Sigs best mags.

3) The springs have a life cycle. Don't expect the gun you were issued 20 years ago to have in-spec springs. These guns need rebuilt/new springs at least every 7 years or so.


While I believe 100% of everything you have stated. I think a law enforcement agency that employ's as many officers as the new Jersey State Police, a weapon requiring less maintenance would have been a far better choice. Most cops are not "gun guys".
 
The NJSP is not a model agency to begin with. There's probably some kind of shenanigans going on here. Glock may be involved.
 
You guys are complaining about the per unit holster cost. What I would like to know is what fool in the NJ State Police approved a purchase of pistols at $5666 each?
 
Id be curious to know who decided on the purchase without testing and a lengthy trial of the weapon/ holster combination?

sky high prices are most often the result of the paperwork guarantees and stipulations involved in the contract.

The paperwork is why the government pays 9K for toilet seats.

UD
 
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Originally Posted By: Kuato
You guys are complaining about the per unit holster cost. What I would like to know is what fool in the NJ State Police approved a purchase of pistols at $5666 each?
Better re-check your math. I show 1,700,000/3000=566.66
 
That police force or that story is full of you know what.

Also ive owned and carried a 229 for over 15 years and never had a malfunction i didnt cause.. i have many mags all of them are sig.
 
Originally Posted By: Superflop
That police force or that story is full of you know what.

Also ive owned and carried a 229 for over 15 years and never had a malfunction i didnt cause.. i have many mags all of them are sig.


Are you saying the story and subsequent lawsuit is a lie because your gun ran OK?
 
Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: Bgallagher
Never been a big glock fan. I don't put my life in my hands like our LEOs but I always preferred the feel of a sig personally.

Personal preference for sure.

Always more to the story but the fact is (seems to be) that Sig followed the problems, acknowledged there were problems and appeared to be unable to solve the problem. If your Sig has proved reliable great..it probabl is andyou should contionue to carry a reliable proven firearm..no question.

More law agencies, militiaries, knowledgle firearm users, and instructors trust their jlives with Glocks. I jdo. My 43 has many thousands of rounds through it with no failures. My other two Glocks (26, 42) are equallyle. Took the 42 150 rounds to become reliable. It has now 1500 rounds with no failures. To me a firarm must have at least 1000 rounds through it with no failures...I don't care what brand it is.




A Glock is worn out after a 1000 rounds through it.
Any brand revolver only needs 6 rounds through it to be considered reliable.
 
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