should my next car be a diesel?

[Smokescreen]

I would expect urea to make its way into the diesel passenger car market in the next while & the particulate filters and the reburn of particulates also to cut down on emissions if they haven't already. I am not sure how much more the clamps will tighten on diesel vehicles in the next while as there really isn't much love for them in the US compared to Europe and other parts of the world.

My lifetime average on the Corolla is 6.13 L/100km or 38.62 mpgUS and have hit as high as 5.08 L/100kms or 46.3 mpgUS and close to that many times. I imagine in the next couple of year with Ford and Hyundai setting new standards we can expect better and better fuel economy and turbos on smaller engines are making their way onto the scene as well.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted By: Smokescreen
I would expect urea to make its way into the diesel passenger car market in the next while & the particulate filters and the reburn of particulates also to cut down on emissions if they haven't already. I am not sure how much more the clamps will tighten on diesel vehicles in the next while as there really isn't much love for them in the US compared to Europe and other parts of the world.

My lifetime average on the Corolla is 6.13 L/100km or 38.62 mpgUiS and have hit as high as 5.08 L/100kms or 46.3 mpgUS and close to that many times. I imagine in the next couple of year with Ford and Hyundai setting new standards we can expect better and better fuel economy and turbos on smaller engines are making their way onto the scene as well.
urea is already here in the bmw335d

 

[JHZR2]

And urea is NBD in that you can buy gallons of it at any wal mart or truckstop.

 

[Clarence_Iba]

I love the 2010 Jetta TDI 6M I have so far. No issues, oil change was simple. Found lots of videos / advice on the fuel filter as well which is due every 20k. Return 48-50 mpg on the highway and 37-40 in town (commute is off freeway).

 

[adamrc]

Originally Posted By: rg200amp
Originally Posted By: sasilverbullet
"the EXTRA maintenance costs that goes with diesel" - ????

I think my vw bug diesel is cheaper to maintain. Where are you getting this from?


LOOK at todays diesel maintenance needs.

Water filters, diesel particulate filters.

They require more oil changes as per car maker, more fuel filter chages aswell.

Not to mention winter time issues.


This is nothing new. You know this.


I've had many diesels over the years and all of my family have been driving diesel trucks and cars for years. What water filter are you talking about? There is no "water filter" to change on a diesel. The DPF on the newer diesels is not a regular maintenance item. Yes the fuel filter changes are a little more frequent on a diesel but the oil changes are not. VW recommends a 10K OCI on my 2001 VW Golf TDI. I've never had any issues at all starting my diesels in the winter even in below zero temperatures. If your glow plugs are working properly and the fuel is blended properly for winter temps, then you should have no problem at all.

Diesels are fantastic. The low end torque, fuel mileage and longevity are just a few great benefits of owning one.

 

[WMSmotorhead]

To quote my father.....

"You've got to drive a whoooole lot of miles to make up the extra cost of buying a diesel".

If you will put 200K on it in 10 years... then it will make more sense than one who puts 100K on a car in 10 years.

 

[David S.]

The cooling system has antifreeze/coolant, a radiator, a thermostat, and a water pump - but no filter.

My only regret with buying a diesel car is that I didn't do it sooner. I love going 700 to 800 miles on each tank of fuel!

 

[fdcg27]

The fuel savings versus the purchase price and the maintenance expense down the road will not pencil out for any current diesel offering.
Back in the day, if you wanted a Mercedes, a 240D W123 was the cheapest one you could buy, and was a very simple machine, which demanded little maintenance beyond oil changes, and infrequent fuel and air filter changes.
These were dead reliable fully mechanical diesels, and not much gave trouble for the first 200K or so.
Today, you pay a premium for a diesel at purchase, and they are neither simple nor cheap to maintain.
Now, a diesel is different and pretty neat, and I liked my two 240Ds, but you should only buy one because you want one, not because you think you'll save some money over many miles.
You won't.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
The fuel savings versus the purchase price and the maintenance expense down the road will not pencil out for any current diesel offering.
Back in the day, if you wanted a Mercedes, a 240D W123 was the cheapest one you could buy, and was a very simple machine, which demanded little maintenance beyond oil changes, and infrequent fuel and air filter changes.
These were dead reliable fully mechanical diesels, and not much gave trouble for the first 200K or so.
Today, you pay a premium for a diesel at purchase, and they are neither simple nor cheap to maintain.
Now, a diesel is different and pretty neat, and I liked my two 240Ds, but you should only buy one because you want one, not because you think you'll save some money over many miles.
You won't.
Not exactly true when making an apples to apples comparison. For example my 335d was only about $1.5k more expensive than a similarly equipped 335i. The cost of fuel is identical and my car is 30% more efficient yet has similar performance.

 

[fdcg27]

Apples to apples, is the car really 30% more economical in actual use, all inputs included?
Also, what is maintenance expense for the d vs the i?
Only $1.5K more does sound pretty cheap, but all else being equal, it will still take you a while to earn back your $1.5K in fuel savings, particurly since diesel is almost always more expensive than gas these days.

 

[ahoier]

I would highly consider the "Cost to Own" that is available at edmunds.com if you consider buying a diesel.

I was fascinated when I heard about the high MPGs attained with a diesel engine, BUT it's my understanding that some of these higher class manufacturers making diesel vehicles, have a higher price tag for the vehicle(s), parts, etc...when it comes down to maintenance and such.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Apples to apples, is the car really 30% more economical in actual use, all inputs included?
Also, what is maintenance expense for the d vs the i?
Only $1.5K more does sound pretty cheap, but all else being equal, it will still take you a while to earn back your $1.5K in fuel savings, particurly since diesel is almost always more expensive than gas these days.
diesel requires a new filter every 30k miles and approx 3 more oil changes over 5 years. Since the 335i requires premium gas there is no real cost differencewhen compared to diesel.

 

[fdcg27]

The d is pretty quick too, isn't it?
$1500.00 does sound like a reasonable price premium, and maintenance doesn't sound killer, especially with no ignition system to worry about.

 

[hattaresguy]

I'm a big diesel fan and have owned a number of diesel Mercedes, and plan on buying more in the not to distant future.

But IMHO unless you drive like 50k miles a year or just really like diesel cars I wouldn't buy one, don't buy one to save money because you wont. You really don't save that much on fuel since diesel is so freaken expensive, and they are more complicated and expensive than there gas counterparts.

If your buying new for example unless BMW is running a deal on the 335D be prepared to spend a large premium over the gas model. So you pay more up front, to spend more at the pump, to get slightly better mileage...pass.

I'm a Mercedes fan, I love the W211. I would recommend a 2006 E320CDI. Last year for the I6, before they got on that Bluetec emissions nonsense.

 

[Robertslowpoke]

thank you everyone, especially hattaresguy! that 2006 es320 cdi gets lots of good reviews!!

considering the price of new, my next car will be used.

thanks!!!

bob

 

[NateDN10]

Let's throw some math at this.

Around here, regular gasoline is $3.90/gal, and diesel is $4.15/gal. A 2011 Jetta 2.5, according to the EPA, gets 27 mpg combined, while the TDI gets 34 mpg combined.

2.5L cost per mile is ($3.90/gal) / (27 mi/gal) = $0.144/mi.
TDI cost per mile is ($4.15/gal) / (34 mi/gal) = $0.122/mi.
Therefore the difference is $0.022/mi.

I don't really want to go through trying to option the two as similarly as possible to control for the engine price difference, but let's say it's $1500.

Then the TDI would pay for itself in $1500/$0.022 = 68,000 miles.

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: NateDN10


Then the TDI would pay for itself in $1500/$0.022 = 68,000 miles.


IF everything on the engine was the same. But the emissions are not (they are more expensive doing more work) and the big word is unknown. Unknown on how they will perform over the miles and HOW much they will cost.

Pre EPA/CARB emissions I'd agree with most of the "math". Today not a chance.

As someone who drives a ton of miles (current vehicle is a 2005 with 205,000+ miles) I don't want to be spending money for sensors this and cat that.

"Normal/simple" engines can go this distance with simple maintenance and get decent MPG (my overall MPG since new is 42+MPG)

My 3 cents.. (again)

Bill

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
I'm a big diesel fan and have owned a number of diesel Mercedes, and plan on buying more in the not to distant future.

But IMHO unless you drive like 50k miles a year or just really like diesel cars I wouldn't buy one, don't buy one to save money because you wont. You really don't save that much on fuel since diesel is so freaken expensive, and they are more complicated and expensive than there gas counterparts.

If your buying new for example unless BMW is running a deal on the 335D be prepared to spend a large premium over the gas model. So you pay more up front, to spend more at the pump, to get slightly better mileage...pass.

I'm a Mercedes fan, I love the W211. I would recommend a 2006 E320CDI. Last year for the I6, before they got on that Bluetec emissions nonsense.
When I bought my 335d the price price premium was $1,500 over the 335i, and this was before incentives. It's all relative.

 

[04SE]

What happens to your savings when a diesel injector goes out and you do not have a warranty? Skimping on maintenance and not changing the fuel filter or getting water in the system is wonderful. I know the injectors for my Cummins are NOT cheap. New Bosch injectors are almost $1,000 a piece. Remans are around $500.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted By: 04SE
What happens to your savings when a diesel injector goes out and you do not have a warranty? Skimping on maintenance and not changing the fuel filter or getting water in the system is wonderful. I know the injectors for my Cummins are NOT cheap. New Bosch injectors are almost $1,000 a piece. Remans are around $500.
@150K miles I don't think I'll complain. Besides what makes you think all the gas DI engines have super reliable injectors anyways?