Shop Labor Dispute

[demarpaint]

Like I said earlier, the payment for the 12 year old replacement labor was on you. After that you should be off the hook. The installer should get payment from the re-builder, not you. At this point I'd be informing them you'll be seeing them in small claims court. I'd drag the repair shop and the re-builder of the defective goods into it. I'd be willing to bet once they're served they'll sing a different tune.

 

[RichardS]

so you paid for it 12 years ago.

Replaced it - paid labor

replacement is defective out of box - replaced, and charged labor again?

I'd call shenanigans. If they aren't going to warranty labor for 30-90 days, then they're giving me the impression they think the parts are junk to begin with.

I'd look through reviews online from google, yelp, etc. and try and find someone who reviewed them and mentioned having labor waived on a defective product, then use that precedence, along with the verbal contract, to take it to S.C. court.

 

[veryHeavy]

Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
It'd be wise to research Texas case law before dispensing legal advice.

Done. It is called "deceptive trade practices" and it includes bait & switch scams. Here is one such case:

https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/oagnews/release.php?id=2747 "Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott today charged two online digital camera and electronics retailers with conducting an unlawful bait-and-switch sales scheme."

 

[raytseng]

All of this depends on the wording of the paperwork. There should be small print on your work order on the estimate and invoice and receipt.

Most shops WILL say Parts and Labor purchased by us are warrantied for XX days for part and XX days for labor, which is why people are saying that's what they "expect" is the right thing.
But just because something is a standard practice doesn't mean it's the hard and fast rule.

 

[64bawagon]

Unfortunately all the discount auto parts (use the term loosely) have driven the good rebuilders out and replaced them with rattle can rebuilders.

 

[sleddriver]

A bit more of the rest of the story:

After more questioning and protesting, he quickly offered to split the cost. I said OK. $170 something beats $340 something. While signing I asked when other dude was going to be back. "Tues". Good. I want a talk with him face-to-face as he's the one I made the appointment with. Manager then slams his pen on the table, tells me he's his employee, not mine and wants to know what I have to say.

I reiterate what I said earlier, "we eat it". Further, that he (dude) should fully explain what's covered and what's not. I do have a right to know.

At this point, he blows his top, calls me a pain-in-the-donkey, then shoves my card towards me and says we're done...don't ever come back. I stare at him a minute then reply "No, I said I'd pay half". At this point, he shuts up. I pause then ask a few more questions. He's so flustered now he can't think straight. He didn't even ask for me to sign the CC bill. I do so anyway.

Later, in retrospect, I realize I let him off to easy. Should have walked out, no charge. I'm never going back. No chance of that. He nor his shop don't deserve my loyality anymore after such a rude, condenscending, arrogant outburst. Why reward it then?

About six months ago, I actually gave the guy one of my hand-made writing pens to thank him for allowing me to use his Volvo scanner. No good deed goes unpunished, eh?

F.I. Thus why fight him? Why not go with him? Take him up on his offer after all. Meaning, call the CC company and deny the split-charge. Explain I changed my mind after a cooling off period and whatever else they want to know. That money could be better spent getting an alignment.

Haven't used this tactic before, so weigh in all. Suggestions?

 

[RichardS]

Originally Posted By: sleddriver


F.I. Thus why fight him? Why not go with him? Take him up on his offer after all. Meaning, call the CC company and deny the split-charge. Explain I changed my mind after a cooling off period and whatever else they want to know. That money could be better spent getting an alignment.

Haven't used this tactic before, so weigh in all. Suggestions?





You should actually check with your card issuer (VISA, mc, AmEx, Discover. They actually offer warranties on things that you buy *outside* of the retailer who charged you, and a refund may fall right into the category of you buying something defective.

 

[CrAlt]

The rack from 12 years ago doesn't even matter. Lets keep it simple

Car was broken
You take the car to this shop and said fix it.
You paid them
Car was NOT fixed
You paid them AGAIN (1/2) for the job they didn't do right the 1st time....Why?

The who, what, and why it wasn't fixed the 1st time isn't your problem. You didn't supply the part.
You didn't have a choice in where they got it.
They charged you markup on that part to boot.

In my state shop labor rate and warranty terms all have to be clearly posted. If that sign said ZERO warranty then I wouldn't do business with them.

 

[DuckRyder]

Wow, this went sideways fast.

FWIW I can see paying for the labor on the first replacement after 12 years if that is the terms of the written part warranty.

I think charging for labor on a part that is bad in 90 days is out of line, as a shop owner I would fight that out with my supplier...

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: sleddriver
A bit more of the rest of the story:

After more questioning and protesting, he quickly offered to split the cost. I said OK. $170 something beats $340 something. While signing I asked when other dude was going to be back. "Tues". Good. I want a talk with him face-to-face as he's the one I made the appointment with. Manager then slams his pen on the table, tells me he's his employee, not mine and wants to know what I have to say.

I reiterate what I said earlier, "we eat it". Further, that he (dude) should fully explain what's covered and what's not. I do have a right to know.

At this point, he blows his top, calls me a pain-in-the-donkey, then shoves my card towards me and says we're done...don't ever come back. I stare at him a minute then reply "No, I said I'd pay half". At this point, he shuts up. I pause then ask a few more questions. He's so flustered now he can't think straight. He didn't even ask for me to sign the CC bill. I do so anyway.

Later, in retrospect, I realize I let him off to easy. Should have walked out, no charge. I'm never going back. No chance of that. He nor his shop don't deserve my loyality anymore after such a rude, condenscending, arrogant outburst. Why reward it then?

About six months ago, I actually gave the guy one of my hand-made writing pens to thank him for allowing me to use his Volvo scanner. No good deed goes unpunished, eh?

F.I. Thus why fight him? Why not go with him? Take him up on his offer after all. Meaning, call the CC company and deny the split-charge. Explain I changed my mind after a cooling off period and whatever else they want to know. That money could be better spent getting an alignment.

Haven't used this tactic before, so weigh in all. Suggestions?


At this point, I would call the CC company and dispute the charge for the FIRST rack.

 

[bullwinkle]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: sleddriver
A bit more of the rest of the story:

After more questioning and protesting, he quickly offered to split the cost. I said OK. $170 something beats $340 something. While signing I asked when other dude was going to be back. "Tues". Good. I want a talk with him face-to-face as he's the one I made the appointment with. Manager then slams his pen on the table, tells me he's his employee, not mine and wants to know what I have to say.

I reiterate what I said earlier, "we eat it". Further, that he (dude) should fully explain what's covered and what's not. I do have a right to know.

At this point, he blows his top, calls me a pain-in-the-donkey, then shoves my card towards me and says we're done...don't ever come back. I stare at him a minute then reply "No, I said I'd pay half". At this point, he shuts up. I pause then ask a few more questions. He's so flustered now he can't think straight. He didn't even ask for me to sign the CC bill. I do so anyway.

Later, in retrospect, I realize I let him off to easy. Should have walked out, no charge. I'm never going back. No chance of that. He nor his shop don't deserve my loyality anymore after such a rude, condenscending, arrogant outburst. Why reward it then?

About six months ago, I actually gave the guy one of my hand-made writing pens to thank him for allowing me to use his Volvo scanner. No good deed goes unpunished, eh?

F.I. Thus why fight him? Why not go with him? Take him up on his offer after all. Meaning, call the CC company and deny the split-charge. Explain I changed my mind after a cooling off period and whatever else they want to know. That money could be better spent getting an alignment.

Haven't used this tactic before, so weigh in all. Suggestions?


At this point, I would call the CC company and dispute the charge for the FIRST rack.
You betcha! This is why in the (unlikely) event I have to pay somebody to do a big automotive job (not tires or the like), it ALWAYS gets paid for by credit card. That way, they screw up, it's CHARGEBACK TIME! And if they get enough of them, they'll lose their ability to accept CC payments altogether!

 

[bullwinkle]

Originally Posted By: sleddriver
A bit more of the rest of the story:

After more questioning and protesting, he quickly offered to split the cost. I said OK. $170 something beats $340 something. While signing I asked when other dude was going to be back. "Tues". Good. I want a talk with him face-to-face as he's the one I made the appointment with. Manager then slams his pen on the table, tells me he's his employee, not mine and wants to know what I have to say.

I reiterate what I said earlier, "we eat it". Further, that he (dude) should fully explain what's covered and what's not. I do have a right to know.

At this point, he blows his top, calls me a pain-in-the-donkey, then shoves my card towards me and says we're done...don't ever come back. I stare at him a minute then reply "No, I said I'd pay half". At this point, he shuts up. I pause then ask a few more questions. He's so flustered now he can't think straight. He didn't even ask for me to sign the CC bill. I do so anyway.

Later, in retrospect, I realize I let him off to easy. Should have walked out, no charge. I'm never going back. No chance of that. He nor his shop don't deserve my loyality anymore after such a rude, condenscending, arrogant outburst. Why reward it then?

About six months ago, I actually gave the guy one of my hand-made writing pens to thank him for allowing me to use his Volvo scanner. No good deed goes unpunished, eh?

F.I. Thus why fight him? Why not go with him? Take him up on his offer after all. Meaning, call the CC company and deny the split-charge. Explain I changed my mind after a cooling off period and whatever else they want to know. That money could be better spent getting an alignment.

Haven't used this tactic before, so weigh in all. Suggestions?



It is also possible that the INSTALLER is screwing the racks up when he's installing them-the clunking symptom followed by difficult steering doesn't sound right.

 

[veryHeavy]

Originally Posted By: sleddriver
Suggestions?

After you sign a receipt, you're pretty much done. You can dispute the charge but Visa or MasterCard will say, "We were given a copy of the receipt, and you signed it."

Warranty complaint is still an option, if it was not installed correctly. You might need to a lawyer, or the Texas consumer affairs department.

 

[Chris142]

All suppliers give you a labor warranty. Usually only 1/3 of the actual labor rate. The shop should have eaten the 2nd bad one.

Too bad that Cardon is probly the only rebuilder for the rack. Maybe Atsco but they are just as bad.

 

[nitehawk55]

Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
Originally Posted By: sleddriver
A bit more of the rest of the story:

After more questioning and protesting, he quickly offered to split the cost. I said OK. $170 something beats $340 something. While signing I asked when other dude was going to be back. "Tues". Good. I want a talk with him face-to-face as he's the one I made the appointment with. Manager then slams his pen on the table, tells me he's his employee, not mine and wants to know what I have to say.

I reiterate what I said earlier, "we eat it". Further, that he (dude) should fully explain what's covered and what's not. I do have a right to know.

At this point, he blows his top, calls me a pain-in-the-donkey, then shoves my card towards me and says we're done...don't ever come back. I stare at him a minute then reply "No, I said I'd pay half". At this point, he shuts up. I pause then ask a few more questions. He's so flustered now he can't think straight. He didn't even ask for me to sign the CC bill. I do so anyway.

Later, in retrospect, I realize I let him off to easy. Should have walked out, no charge. I'm never going back. No chance of that. He nor his shop don't deserve my loyality anymore after such a rude, condenscending, arrogant outburst. Why reward it then?

About six months ago, I actually gave the guy one of my hand-made writing pens to thank him for allowing me to use his Volvo scanner. No good deed goes unpunished, eh?

F.I. Thus why fight him? Why not go with him? Take him up on his offer after all. Meaning, call the CC company and deny the split-charge. Explain I changed my mind after a cooling off period and whatever else they want to know. That money could be better spent getting an alignment.

Haven't used this tactic before, so weigh in all. Suggestions?



It is also possible that the INSTALLER is screwing the racks up when he's installing them-the clunking symptom followed by difficult steering doesn't sound right.


That's what I was wondering .
No OP , you shouldn't be paying anything other than the original labor charge on the first replacement , shop owner is playing you .

 

[Leo99]

Originally Posted By: CrAlt
The rack from 12 years ago doesn't even matter. Lets keep it simple

Car was broken
You take the car to this shop and said fix it.
You paid them
Car was NOT fixed
You paid them AGAIN (1/2) for the job they didn't do right the 1st time....Why?

The who, what, and why it wasn't fixed the 1st time isn't your problem. You didn't supply the part.
You didn't have a choice in where they got it.
They charged you markup on that part to boot.

In my state shop labor rate and warranty terms all have to be clearly posted. If that sign said ZERO warranty then I wouldn't do business with them.



I concur 100%. Years ago my heater core sprung a leak in my Sable. What a pain to change that out. It was 8 hours of labor rate. AC lines had to be moved, recover the Freon; dash had to come out. Shopped around and took it to Pep Boys. The replacement one worked for a week and started to leak again. Took it back and they said they got in a batch batch of heater cores. There was no question that they weren't going to put in another one for free.

The shop broke their contract to you. You agreed to pay them $x for them fixing your car. They didn't fix your car. And they want you to pay more money?

 

[Cressida]

Originally Posted By: Chris142

Too bad that Cardon is probly the only rebuilder for the rack. Maybe Atsco but they are just as bad.


From this thread I've read that Cardon, ATSCO and Maval may not be reliable rebuilders. From another source I recently heard about two bad AC Delco units. Since I may have to replace a leaking rack in my "Whack a mole" Camry soon, has anyone found a source of racks that appear to be properly re-manufactured?

They all seem to advertise how they re-polish the seal bores to better than new condition; install all new seals, o-rings, boots, bushings, with a careful inspection of everything else, etc.

Something doesn't seem to be adding up - except that they all seem to get a black or silver spray painting from the rattle can - little good that is doing.

 

[Lolvoguy]

This whole thread is nonsense.

I started a thread last summer of a wheel bearing issue. Since my mechanic was willing to install bearings for me and only charge labor, I was elated.

One bad bearing was installed. Shop said they will make me pay labor on the replacement since they didn't supply the bearing.

I sucked it up and got it replaced and paid labor twice since I was saving $$ by supplying my own parts.

IMHO OP should not have paid labor on anything except the original one 12 years ago.

As an aside I think it's silly Volvo does not make these racks anymore. Lack of long term OEM parts is why I refuse to ever own another Volvo again. For the BMW in my signature I can still source most parts from the dealer, even interior parts and trim etc.

 

[fdcg27]

What we have here is failure to communicate.
Why did the OEM rack require replacement when the car was only 6-7 years old?
Maybe this is a POS design to begin with?
If the shop supplied the replacement rack and it lasted twelve years, then I'd say that their charging you labor to replace it seems reasonable.
After that?
I can see one rebuilt rack being junk, but two?
There may be very specific instructions for installing and bleeding a new rack which the tech who did the work may have either been unaware of or ignored which resulted in the failure of two new rebuilt racks.
For example, when I purchased a new mater cylinder for our Focus, the instructions said very clearly in black and white not to bench bleed it.
Why not?
No idea, but I assume that there must have been a good reason beyond taking lots more time and using lots more brake fluid.
Labor charges in the event that the replacement rack(s) proved unsatisfactory after installation is something you should have clarified before authorizing any work.
I'd check out a couple of Volvo boards and find out whether anything special is involved in putting a new rack into service.
If so, the shop probably didn't follow the proper procedure and should thus be on the hook for labor on the two messed up racks.
Even having signed the credit card receipt will not preclude your disputing the charge.
After all, the shop would not release the car to you until you'd paid them, standard procedure in the business, and you'd have no idea that there were any problems with their work until you'd driven the car.

 

[Ramblejam]

As a former P80 Volvo owner, I'm willing to bet this thing is only still in service because he has some sort of sentimental attachment, and has done most of the work himself. It's at the age/mileage now where a bunch of stuff starts going wrong on these cars, and it gets very expensive, very quickly; racking up bills in the several thousand dollar range (well exceeding vehicle value, which is why you find so many of them in junkyards) is commonplace.

Wasn't this the same guy that was having all sorts of power steering problems awhile back? I distinctly remember a thread about AT-205 and perpetual leakage. So after the mechanic-in-a-bottle, it failed, but was still covered under warranty.
Originally Posted By: veryHeavy
You might need to a lawyer, or the Texas consumer affairs department.

You have still refused to provide any evidence as to how they're on the hook legally. Do you just think it's cool to go around and accuse a business of fraud?