"Shop Charges" For Auto Repairs

[02SE]

Originally Posted by tony1679
Exactly. As if $129/hour isn't enough to pay for these things. I know most mechanics in that shop make $20-25 per flag hour, and the exceptionally skilled are potentially up to $50. So where is the other $79+ going? I understand the lifts need paid for, electricity, the building maintenance itself, floors, etc. But at what point is something done to stop the intentional [censored] they're doing to customers?


You've never been a business owner, have you.

You left out payroll tax, Federal unemployment insurance, any benefits the employee gets like health insurance, Dental, maybe a 401k, etc, etc.

There's also insurance for the business, and it's assets.

After all that you have to make some profit, or it's just a waste of time, and the business won't be around for long.

The shop you went to chose their specific business model and pricing structure for whatever reason they had. Some will have a separate charge for every can of brake cleaner, shop rags, etc. Others roll that into the hourly rate. Whether it's spelled out on the bill or not, customers are paying for those items.

 

[Rolla07]

They should quote it up front. Definitely shady.

 

[clinebarger]

They shouldn't have charged you for shop supplies on a Diagnostic. The point of sale program probably added it automatically, I usually have to fix that in the program manually.

Consumable costs in the auto repair business are high & profit margins are thinner than A LOT of other service industries.

 

[Fawteen]

Originally Posted by tony1679
Dropped off my Civic at a local dealer


You made the choice of dealer/shop to do the diagnosis.

 

[P10crew]

I have a friend that has a older woman for his accountant. She comes to his shop every other Friday to do his books and do payroll. She is unbelievable! Best thing he ever did was hire this gal. She will take every single invoice for every single part or supply coming in and demand from him that it's all got to be charged out..... everything! In his shop if it gets used on your vehicle you get billed for it. As CLine layed out margins are low and these shops can't eat anything .
Honesty is huge too!

 

[AC1DD]

Originally Posted by Rolla07
They should quote it up front. Definitely shady.

Bingo.

 

[dnewton3]

Whether you pay $129 + $20 shop fees, or $149 and no fees, the price paid ends up the same.
It's the tactic of after-the-fact charges that gets to be annoying ...

When I ask for quotes on things, I always specifically ask "Are there any other add-on fees or charges not directly stated in your quoted price?" Then you have them boxed in, because they either will tell you up front, or you can refuse the payment when they try to tack it on later on. In every state, there are laws about deceptive pricing practices, however that does not mean shops don't get away with things untoward the heedless masses.

Look around in the shop; do they have the shop-charge posted on a wall or sign or tiny piece of old paper behind the counter? All they have to do to comply with most any advertising pricing is just display it somewhere ... typically it has to be conspicuous, but even that is up to interpretation.

 

[Spector]

I agree that when they quote you a price it should be the out the door price. I have complained as well but also that they should include the sales tax in the quote and a 100 quote after supplies and tax is 125. Misleading information IMO. Maybe meant so that one cannot compare apples to apples when shopping around.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by dnewton3
Whether you pay $129 + $20 shop fees, or $149 and no fees, the price paid ends up the same.
It's the tactic of after-the-fact charges that gets to be annoying ...

When I ask for quotes on things, I always specifically ask "Are there any other add-on fees or charges not directly stated in your quoted price?" Then you have them boxed in, because they either will tell you up front, or you can refuse the payment when they try to tack it on later on. In every state, there are laws about deceptive pricing practices, however that does not mean shops don't get away with things untoward the heedless masses.

Look around in the shop; do they have the shop-charge posted on a wall or sign or tiny piece of old paper behind the counter? All they have to do to comply with most any advertising pricing is just display it somewhere ... typically it has to be conspicuous, but even that is up to interpretation.



Agree...Quoting the "All In" price just makes the experience so much better.

 

[wag123]

In some states, these types of fees, and weather to charge them, fall under state law. In Texas, if a business is going to charge a fee such as shop fee or documentary fee it has to be an "everyone or no one" and "all or nothing" fee, in other words, ALL customers must be charged the fee (you pay for labor, you pay the shop fee) or NO customers can be charged the fee, and the fee must be an equal dollar amount for ALL customers, a percentage is not allowed (a percentage would be a "tax" and only the government is allowed to tax). The laws changed here in the 80's when there were discrimination lawsuits filed and won where some customers who were charged fees claimed that they were discriminated against because other customers were not charged fees (or were charged reduced fees). The fee does not have to be posted.
Like it or not, now days a shop fee is a pretty much standard fee at ALL auto repair businesses (not just new car dealers) and most other repair businesses (boat, OPE, appliance, HVAC, plumbing, electrical, etc). Even manufacturers pay the fee on warranty work.

 

[bdcardinal]

Originally Posted by wag123
In some states, these types of fees, and weather to charge them, fall under state law. In Texas, if a business is going to charge a fee such as shop fee or documentary fee it has to be an "everyone or no one" and "all or nothing" fee, in other words, ALL customers must be charged the fee (you pay for labor, you pay the shop fee) or NO customers can be charged the fee, and the fee must be an equal dollar amount for ALL customers, a percentage is not allowed (a percentage would be a "tax" and only the government is allowed to tax). The laws changed here in the 80's when there were discrimination lawsuits filed and won where some customers who were charged fees claimed that they were discriminated against because other customers were not charged fees (or were charged reduced fees). The fee does not have to be posted.
Like it or not, now days a shop fee is a pretty much standard fee at ALL auto repair businesses (not just new car dealers) and most other repair businesses (boat, OPE, appliance, HVAC, plumbing, electrical, etc). Even manufacturers pay the fee on warranty work.


2 things to expand on this.

When people here complain about the "creepy/disgusting finance person" when buying a car "trying to upsell stuff they said they didn't want" the all or nothing thing applies. Yes I haven't liked most of the finance people that have been here in my 12 years, but I had one who was nice explain that to me. It makes sense really.

As for billing on warranty, with Ford we can bill shop supplies, but they have to be itemized. We can actually bill more on warranty work than most customer pay work, warranty will pay it when required, customers tend to not want to pay, same with required hardware replacement. Like for any warranty repair involving exhaust removal we can bill out anti-seize. It is a normal size bottle so the tech is expected to use it on multiple vehicles.

 

[JTK]

Originally Posted by demarpaint

I don't have a problem with that. My beef is they should build it into their hourly rate, so the customer doesn't feel like they're really getting hosed. In my business I use paint brushes and rollers, and a slew of other sundry items. I don't have a surcharge for those "disposable tools or items," which wear out and have to be replaced. It's all factored into the cost of the job.


I'm wondering if it could be due to accounting or taxation record keeping that some shops will half-azzz itemize these things separately on the bill. Like said, it's most likely just to get a few more bucks on the bill.

I have seen this on the bill from local shops I uses depending on the scope of the job. Hourly rates here are in the $80-90/hr range last I saw.

 

[Audios]

Originally Posted by 02SE
Originally Posted by tony1679
Exactly. As if $129/hour isn't enough to pay for these things. I know most mechanics in that shop make $20-25 per flag hour, and the exceptionally skilled are potentially up to $50. So where is the other $79+ going? I understand the lifts need paid for, electricity, the building maintenance itself, floors, etc. But at what point is something done to stop the intentional [censored] they're doing to customers?


You've never been a business owner, have you.

You left out payroll tax, Federal unemployment insurance, any benefits the employee gets like health insurance, Dental, maybe a 401k, etc, etc.

There's also insurance for the business, and it's assets.

After all that you have to make some profit, or it's just a waste of time, and the business won't be around for long.

The shop you went to chose their specific business model and pricing structure for whatever reason they had. Some will have a separate charge for every can of brake cleaner, shop rags, etc. Others roll that into the hourly rate. Whether it's spelled out on the bill or not, customers are paying for those items.


This, so any people do not take into account the operating expenses. I swear most think Im putting 105/hr in my pocket and smiling. Yes, Im at $105/hr and going to 115 next year. I have 3 employees, each makes between 16-25/hr, which puts us at about 65/hr right off the bat in payroll, not counting myself. My 2 largest expenses are rent, 3300/month, and insurance, about 10k a year, not counting the umbrella policy. For ease, lets say roughly 4200 a month between them. 5 days a week, 20 days a month roughly means it cost me 210/day just in the building and insurance to work on the cars, and about 520$ in pay, so about $730/day before electricity, parts, medical, workmans comp, food, water etc etc etc.

 

[spasm3]

Originally Posted by tony1679
But at what point is something done to stop the intentional [censored] they're doing to customers?


If the price is that out of line, they will go to another shop. There are lots of costs to a business as mentioned above. Insurance, umbrella policies in case you are sued. Lights, heating and cooling and of course taxes ( property tax, income tax, business license fees, costs to meet epa standards). Cost of tools and software. You don't work for free , so some profit has to be calculated in. You have to maintain the building and the parking lot.

 

[PandaBear]

Personally I am ok with it if they are up front about it (i.e. fine print, sign on the wall, etc with the exact amount or percentage).

Throwing it on last minute on the bill is shady. I don't like to work with shady shops.