Shell dumps wind and solar

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Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Quote:
The function of a corporation and the obligation of directors of a corporation is to increase shareholder value.


Well, sure ..but I imagine that there's some sensible merit to assuring a sustainable leading edge presence in any emerging technology.

Your definition alone makes every corporation set up to experience a penny wise and pound foolish scenario.

It's all about time spans. Humans are weak minded and short sighted. Realty will continue long after yesterday's profit is eroded into meaninglessness.

Our whole economic experience has been devastated by having to have tomorrow's profits today under some foolish notion that the future is imaginary or that it will take care of itself in a like manner as it is today. It has faith in a method that has a proven failing, or rather declining, track record of benefit.

"Your definition alone makes every corporation set up to experience a penny wise and pound foolish scenario."
If you increase true value, almost by definition you would be pound wise.

"Our whole economic experience has been devastated by having to have tomorrow's profits today under some foolish notion that the future is imaginary or that it will take care of itself in a like manner as it is today."
True that.

"It has faith in a method that has a proven failing, or rather declining, track record of benefit."

It could be argued that the capitalism success of the last few centuries has proven more beneficial than the alternatives.
 
Our company makes bearings for windmills. Last October, we couldn't keep up with demand. In January, the bottom fell out of the market and nobody is interested in windmills anymore.

Perhaps this is related to the price drop in natural gas? It's all tied into economics, and not what presidents and schoolchildren want.
 
It's also because corporations, at least here, were being allowed to depreciate wind turbine capital at 50% per year, and since profits are down, they have no need for the tax shelter. The power comapny still charges 14 cents per kw-hr, so I'd put up a turbine tomorrow if I had a business that could use its max output. Maybe the price of a turbine will come down.
 
In the news today, Michigan, by law, must have 10% of their electricity produced by renewable means. So, over 200 windmills are being built in the thumb area. This is done regardless of the fact that coal and nuclear are cheaper.

I'll bet that by the time windmill energy will be cost-effective, that these windmills will have reached the end of their lives and must be scrapped.
 
the right thing to do is not always the profitable (money-wise) thing to do.
you know how sometimes we look back and wonder why people did things a certain way? like all the failed urban renewal projects? we say look at the foolishness of their shortsightedness. we KNOW better now, right?
I wonder what future generations will say about this generation.
 
Originally Posted By: Kestas


I'll bet that by the time windmill energy will be cost-effective, that these windmills will have reached the end of their lives and must be scrapped.


The break even without tax credit day will come sooner because of experience gained on existing windmills. I just read an article on how windmills around here are being replaced by newer more efficient windmills. The older commercial windmills are then reconditioned and sold to smaller users.
 
That Shell has decided to drop wind and solar only leaves more room for others. If there is money to be made eventually, or somebody thinks there is, they are free to build a wind farm. They do have regulatory concerns, but anybody is free to apply for the permits. Let's hope we aren't moving to toward the third world where only the president's family and friends can get business licenses.

OK say I buy an alternator that would fit my Cavalier, $225 at Oriely's without a core for a 105 amp one. I would have to mount it somewhere and run a cable to the big deep cycle battery connected to my 650 VA UPS. The alternator could put out about 1500 watts. OK assume we only have enough wind to average 300 watts. Also I would need a connected load of that much. At a little over $0.073/kwh, it would produce $191.98 worth of electricity a year. Depending on how much a turbine, mounting, wiring, etc. cost, I would be ahead sometime the second year.
 
Quote:
Our company makes bearings for windmills. Last October, we couldn't keep up with demand. In January, the bottom fell out of the market and nobody is interested in windmills anymore.


We have a couple of 1.5 kW wind generators at work. The cost to keep them running exceeds the value of the electricity they produce. One lost the directional bearing. It was $400 for a replacement. We keep them running for show. Maybe others, like Shell, are going the math and not liking what they see.

Ed
 
I don't buy the "experience" argument. Experience can be gleaned from other countries who are presently into windmill energy.

Otherwise, I agree that windmills are getting better. The earlier ones were only useful between 10 and 30 mph, or something like that. It takes a minimum amount of wind to get them working, and if wind is too strong, they have to shut it down. I believe they've pushed the envelope to where they now start at 6 or 8 mph. Perhaps they've pushed the top end too.

The greenies should be in an uproar over the proliferation of windmill energy. This business requires substantially more amounts of steel and concrete than the coal industry to produce the same amount of energy. This excess production of steel and concrete is polluting and wasteful.
 
Originally Posted By: moribundman
Originally Posted By: Jim 5
The function of a corporation and the obligation of directors of a corporation is to increase shareholder value. The function of a corporation is not to save the world. That is the role of government if its electorate desires same.


I hope Tempest doesn't read this.
LOL.gif


Oh I saw it, but I'm let'n it go.
 
Quote:
It could be argued that the capitalism success of the last few centuries has proven more beneficial than the alternatives.


The last few centuries of success were instituted via conquest. Imperialism and Colonialism would have to be mated to those success stories of Capitalism. Once you take them out of the equation ..or even leave them in, ..show me a standing nation that's sustained itself under Capitalism over that same span of time and remained "on top" ..or for that matter "intact". I think that we're the longest standing nation of any of the former global powers. All the rest have been reshuffled into "something else".

Spain
France
England
Portugal

..all just as rich as they once were and bursting at the seams with prosperity.

So, now that we accept the notion that "no one stays on top forever" ..we're going full steam ahead to our decline. Makes sense to me.

Now we have our own version of neo-Imperialism via Wall St. Lots of cookie cutter westernized satellites that have open markets ...and we shut out those who don't want to play by those rules. We'll subsidize their competition with "most favored nation" status ..making them even more poor for their lack of obedience and conformity.

Naturally, it's preferred to armed conquest ..but the effects aren't really that much different in terms of costs and casualties.
 
"Spain
France
England
Portugal

..all just as rich as they once were and bursting at the seams with prosperity."

They are?
 
That was my point. I guess, if the past few hundred years is any indicator, we can follow them in line.

Do you recall the notion that the sun never set on the British Empire? The French weren't far behind... earlier on, Spain ..etc..etc.

Now we too can (probably) say that the sun never sets on our flag.
 
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