Septic tank

[JHZR2]

Parents have a 30 year old septic system, gravity type, that they put in and has never had service or been pumped. It is a weekend place which is partially why, I guess. But they have always been super careful of what goes in there.

 

[Pop_Rivit]

Originally Posted By: ridgerunner

Mostly good advise here, except for the use of acid and salt. Backwash from a softner (mostly salt) will kill your bacteria in your system.


I suggest you look at a couple of studies done on that very issue. "A Quantitative Analysis of the Impact of Salt on the Microorganisms in an Aerobic Wastewater Treatment System” by S. Husain & C.D. Litchfield concluded the following.

Quote:
These concerns seem to be unwarranted. First, a typical residential sized water softener discharges between 40 and 70 gallons of water per regeneration. Through much of the regeneration process, fresh water is discharged, containing no salt at all, so the total concentration of salt is very dilute. However, during some stages of regeneration, the sodium concentration can reach as high a 5,000 to 10,000 ppm for brief periods of time.

To see if this level of sodium effected microorganisms typically found in anaerobic on-site septic systems, the study exposed these microbes to a worst case scenario of 10,000 ppm brine solution. The study concluded that “there were no statistically significant differences in the metabolic activity of the microbial community”, and that it was “unlikely that failures in domestic water treatment system are the result of exposure to the brine from home water softeners.”


Another recommended reading source is “Home Water Treatment System Discharges to On-Site Wastewater Systems” by J.F. Harrison and C.F Michaud. They found the following.

Quote:
The effect of putting softened water into septic system can actually be beneficial. There is a very low amount of sodium contained in softened water. For every grain of hardness removed, approximately 8 ppm (parts per million) of sodium is added. Although some naturally occurring water sources have very high sodium levels, softened water normally has a slightly elevated sodium level vs. untreated hard water. While this concentration is normally insignificant at typical hardness levels, these higher sodium levels are more in the optimal range for septic system bacterial growth, and can promote bacterial development


Originally Posted By: ridgerunner
Don't believe me, dump salt on any living organism and see what happens...


Let me think. No, I don't believe you when it comes to septic systems. The idea of "dumping salt on a living organism" isn't a valid comparison to increasing the parts per million in a septic system. If your wildly exaggerated comparison was valid, the salt water oceans of the earth would be a vast dead zone of nothing but salty water.

Since we've had septic systems for nearly 4 decades, and a water softener for more than 2 decades, and never an issue with the septic system, I think I'll continue to believe the experts.

 

[Kruse]

Plenty of good replies. One thing to remember is to never drive anything heavy (like tractor or a loaded gravel or cement truck) over your septic tank or the leach lines. You might laugh, but it's amazing how the location of a septic tank gets forgotten when it sits for years without having to be dug up.

 

[Touring5]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Parents have a 30 year old septic system, gravity type, that they put in and has never had service or been pumped. It is a weekend place which is partially why, I guess. But they have always been super careful of what goes in there.


I'm living in the house my parents built in 1962. Other than the occasional pumping of the tank, it has continued to perform without issue. The finger system is in a low part of the area that occasionally floods during heavy spring rains and our soil is primarily clay. I'm amazed that it is still functioning, but feel like I'm living on borrowed time. They and I always followed the suggestions in this thread. As to the driving over the fingers part, my tree maintenance guy asks if there is a septic system and will not drive over it.

While my system has survived, several of my neighbors (with similarly aged systems) haven't been as lucky. The good news for all of us here is that the city is in the process of installing sanitary sewer lines and we should all be able to ditch our septic systems within the next year. It will be great not having to worry that a major repair bill could be lurking just around the corner.

 

[doitmyself]

Thank you Pop Rivet for providing those facts. I studied this info some years ago when our septic pumper said the same thing (softner discharge o.k.).

What about dishwashers and laundry dumping into the septic tank? I know of systems that do this with no apparent problems after 30 years.

In these instances, I was "told" to use liquid soaps as opposed to powders that contain a high percentage of fillers that could eventually clog the system. Any truth to this?

I also question the claims of some additives that say they "liquify" the solids to reduce tank build up. Well, you want the solids to stay in the tank, not be released into the field.

 

[The_Jeff]

If the septic is new the town might require a permit with engineering drawings and the lay of the land. IE you could pull this public record from the town hall/courthouse. This should also go in a "house folder" the sellers should prepare as a courtesy and as a selling aid.

It's a yankee tradition to "stretch" a septic tank's capacity by diverting washing machine or (yuck) kitchen sink grey water to a "dry well" which is basically a hole/trench in the ground with a little gravel. It's not presently legal but apparantly was, once, and inspectors here turn a blind eye if they even know about them.

 

[Kruse]

Originally Posted By: eljefino

It's a yankee tradition to "stretch" a septic tank's capacity by diverting washing machine or (yuck) kitchen sink grey water to a "dry well" which is basically a hole/trench in the ground with a little gravel. It's not presently legal but apparantly was, once, and inspectors here turn a blind eye if they even know about them.


My father-in-law lived in a small town in Texas and had the washing machine wash and rinse water diverted out to his lawn and garden. On several occasions when we brought the family, we would hear about how we shouldn't use too much water and he was afraid of the septic filling up.

 

[Dave Hess]

Nothing wrong with washing machine wash being pumped to the ground.

 

[ridgerunner]

Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Originally Posted By: ridgerunner

Mostly good advise here, except for the use of acid and salt. Backwash from a softner (mostly salt) will kill your bacteria in your system.


I suggest you look at a couple of studies done on that very issue. "A Quantitative Analysis of the Impact of Salt on the Microorganisms in an Aerobic Wastewater Treatment System” by S. Husain & C.D. Litchfield concluded the following.

Quote:
These concerns seem to be unwarranted. First, a typical residential sized water softener discharges between 40 and 70 gallons of water per regeneration. Through much of the regeneration process, fresh water is discharged, containing no salt at all, so the total concentration of salt is very dilute. However, during some stages of regeneration, the sodium concentration can reach as high a 5,000 to 10,000 ppm for brief periods of time.

To see if this level of sodium effected microorganisms typically found in anaerobic on-site septic systems, the study exposed these microbes to a worst case scenario of 10,000 ppm brine solution. The study concluded that “there were no statistically significant differences in the metabolic activity of the microbial community”, and that it was “unlikely that failures in domestic water treatment system are the result of exposure to the brine from home water softeners.”


Another recommended reading source is “Home Water Treatment System Discharges to On-Site Wastewater Systems” by J.F. Harrison and C.F Michaud. They found the following.

Quote:
The effect of putting softened water into septic system can actually be beneficial. There is a very low amount of sodium contained in softened water. For every grain of hardness removed, approximately 8 ppm (parts per million) of sodium is added. Although some naturally occurring water sources have very high sodium levels, softened water normally has a slightly elevated sodium level vs. untreated hard water. While this concentration is normally insignificant at typical hardness levels, these higher sodium levels are more in the optimal range for septic system bacterial growth, and can promote bacterial development


Originally Posted By: ridgerunner
Don't believe me, dump salt on any living organism and see what happens...


Let me think. No, I don't believe you when it comes to septic systems. The idea of "dumping salt on a living organism" isn't a valid comparison to increasing the parts per million in a septic system. If your wildly exaggerated comparison was valid, the salt water oceans of the earth would be a vast dead zone of nothing but salty water.

Since we've had septic systems for nearly 4 decades, and a water softener for more than 2 decades, and never an issue with the septic system, I think I'll continue to believe the experts.

Sir, U are talking to an expert. Ocean organisms have evolved (have ways) to deal with salt in their environment. Go ahead put the backwash in the tank. Organisms in your septic tank will die off, tank solids will not settle out and will exit the tank (outlet filter or not), clogging up pipes and aggregate. I deal w/ septic systems on a daily basis. I design, permit, conduct soil testing, inspect, and repair old system every day. I've done this since 1994, I know my chit! I don't soley rely on and quote read materials, I live it, see it, and all to often, step in it. Sodium also destroys clay structure in soils to a point where it is no longer infiltrative, ie by by drainfield hello expensive replacement.
Also the first study U wanted me to look up states that this is for an "aerobic" wastewater treatment system. Sorry, a septic tank is very much an anaerobic environment.