Selling Million Dollar House Without a Broker ?
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Originally Posted By: hatt
Don't worry, agents aren't being cut out. Most FSBOs give up sooner or later go through an agent. Why waste six months to a year marketing to a small number of buyers? If you can do it good for you. I'm not mad at ya. I just have to remember to call you in a few months.
The 3 houses in my first post are within 800-1,000 ft from my house. All 3 houses were sold for more than listed price, the highest difference was the house sold for $1.9 mils with asking price of $1.7 mils. So it's very clear that listing agents want to sell the house as quick as possible by talking to seller to list/sell the house at lower than market price, to ensure that they will get commission.
The house price in my area seems to increase about 6-8% the last 12 months, and probably will increase with similar percentage the next 12 months. If I can't sell my house at the fair market price(around $1.3-1.35 mils) in the next 1-3 months, I will take it off market then relist it 2-3 months later and probably can sell it at 3-4% more.
In normal housing market selling a house without agent is very difficult, in a seller market with a sought after location FSBO is not so difficult, and probably get close to a broker can get.
Don't worry, agents aren't being cut out. Most FSBOs give up sooner or later go through an agent. Why waste six months to a year marketing to a small number of buyers? If you can do it good for you. I'm not mad at ya. I just have to remember to call you in a few months.
The 3 houses in my first post are within 800-1,000 ft from my house. All 3 houses were sold for more than listed price, the highest difference was the house sold for $1.9 mils with asking price of $1.7 mils. So it's very clear that listing agents want to sell the house as quick as possible by talking to seller to list/sell the house at lower than market price, to ensure that they will get commission.
The house price in my area seems to increase about 6-8% the last 12 months, and probably will increase with similar percentage the next 12 months. If I can't sell my house at the fair market price(around $1.3-1.35 mils) in the next 1-3 months, I will take it off market then relist it 2-3 months later and probably can sell it at 3-4% more.
In normal housing market selling a house without agent is very difficult, in a seller market with a sought after location FSBO is not so difficult, and probably get close to a broker can get.
Realtors are like used car salesman but with nicer wardrobes.
I had my house appraised last September. Similar houses in the neighborhood were sold for $1.2-1.4 mils, the 200 sq-ft smaller house sold for 1.2 mils, the same size house with some upgrades sold for $1.4 mils.
Actually I had my house listed with an agent last year, the best offer we had was $1.28 mils with condition that we had to replace the patio cover with new one at the cost of around $10k, after termite repair and fumigate at a cost of $12k.
The net process after all costs was around $1.17 mils, a little low I think.
If I can sell my house at $1.3 mils without replacing patio cover but I still do termite repair and fumigate, I will net around $1.28 mils, about $100k more than what my agent got 6-7 months ago.
I think it's good idea of getting attorney/title company involve, their charge is not more than $5-10k.
Actually I had my house listed with an agent last year, the best offer we had was $1.28 mils with condition that we had to replace the patio cover with new one at the cost of around $10k, after termite repair and fumigate at a cost of $12k.
The net process after all costs was around $1.17 mils, a little low I think.
If I can sell my house at $1.3 mils without replacing patio cover but I still do termite repair and fumigate, I will net around $1.28 mils, about $100k more than what my agent got 6-7 months ago.
I think it's good idea of getting attorney/title company involve, their charge is not more than $5-10k.
Do you have a new home picked out in the same area?
No, We didn't look very hard to see where we will moving to.
Until now we like stay in Orange County, but we may move to Vegas or Phoenix. Another option is move to one of the Hawaii islands.
Until now we like stay in Orange County, but we may move to Vegas or Phoenix. Another option is move to one of the Hawaii islands.
Typically the best way to sell a house is to price it right at or slightly below market, than you get a lot of interest and sell it fast for a bit more.
I sell 6-10 houses a year usually for my asking, I'm very good at pricing things. Also your first offer is usually your best.
I don't know your market but your talking about very large price fluctuations for houses that are pretty close to each other. Usually you get that if your waterfront or have views.
As said above I would offer a 2% co broke on the MLS, that will get you a lot of the advertising that agents use.
Also don't forget you will have to put a lockbox on the property and you will need to stage it if you want maximum value. Also condition is important, you need to take care of every little detail that buyers see before they see it. Fresh paint never hurts, etc.
I sell 6-10 houses a year usually for my asking, I'm very good at pricing things. Also your first offer is usually your best.
I don't know your market but your talking about very large price fluctuations for houses that are pretty close to each other. Usually you get that if your waterfront or have views.
As said above I would offer a 2% co broke on the MLS, that will get you a lot of the advertising that agents use.
Also don't forget you will have to put a lockbox on the property and you will need to stage it if you want maximum value. Also condition is important, you need to take care of every little detail that buyers see before they see it. Fresh paint never hurts, etc.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Typically the best way to sell a house is to price it right at or slightly below market, than you get a lot of interest and sell it fast for a bit more.
I sell 6-10 houses a year usually for my asking, I'm very good at pricing things. Also your first offer is usually your best.
I don't know your market but your talking about very large price fluctuations for houses that are pretty close to each other. Usually you get that if your waterfront or have views.
As said above I would offer a 2% co broke on the MLS, that will get you a lot of the advertising that agents use.
Also don't forget you will have to put a lockbox on the property and you will need to stage it if you want maximum value. Also condition is important, you need to take care of every little detail that buyers see before they see it. Fresh paint never hurts, etc.
Yes, about 150-160 houses on the track is on a hill with terrific view for houses 1 or 2 or more streets up on the hill. Identical house 1 street up the hill demands about $100-150k more.
The house sold for $2.75 was rebuilt 10-12 years ago, from 2600 sq-ft single story to 4500 sq-ft 2-story and it's on third street up the hill.
A neighbor bulldozed their single story house to build 4800 sq-ft 2-story. They bought their house 4-5 years ago, a year after they filled for permission but HOA declined, they sued and finally HOA had to agree.
It's more or less the condition of the house is not so importance in this location, the view and lot size are more importance. There were more than 10 houses had been bulldozed in the last 15 years to build new houses, usually larger.
Typically the best way to sell a house is to price it right at or slightly below market, than you get a lot of interest and sell it fast for a bit more.
I sell 6-10 houses a year usually for my asking, I'm very good at pricing things. Also your first offer is usually your best.
I don't know your market but your talking about very large price fluctuations for houses that are pretty close to each other. Usually you get that if your waterfront or have views.
As said above I would offer a 2% co broke on the MLS, that will get you a lot of the advertising that agents use.
Also don't forget you will have to put a lockbox on the property and you will need to stage it if you want maximum value. Also condition is important, you need to take care of every little detail that buyers see before they see it. Fresh paint never hurts, etc.
Yes, about 150-160 houses on the track is on a hill with terrific view for houses 1 or 2 or more streets up on the hill. Identical house 1 street up the hill demands about $100-150k more.
The house sold for $2.75 was rebuilt 10-12 years ago, from 2600 sq-ft single story to 4500 sq-ft 2-story and it's on third street up the hill.
A neighbor bulldozed their single story house to build 4800 sq-ft 2-story. They bought their house 4-5 years ago, a year after they filled for permission but HOA declined, they sued and finally HOA had to agree.
It's more or less the condition of the house is not so importance in this location, the view and lot size are more importance. There were more than 10 houses had been bulldozed in the last 15 years to build new houses, usually larger.
Originally Posted By: satinsilver
Realtors are like used car salesman but with nicer wardrobes.
+1
Realtors are like used car salesman but with nicer wardrobes.
+1
Is Irvine a hot market now?
Back in the days of the boom, people would self list their homes on Sunday and there would be a line of people with offers.
No agent involved, some of the guys I know sold to an all cash offer, no loan involved.
If you are in a slow market, or if you overprice your house, it will not sell.
Even if you have a Realtor you will need to get the home ready to show.
FSBO people are sometimes very emotional and prices their home above the market. So if you spend a few $$ and get a reputable appraisal, you can use it to sell.
Back in the days of the boom, people would self list their homes on Sunday and there would be a line of people with offers.
No agent involved, some of the guys I know sold to an all cash offer, no loan involved.
If you are in a slow market, or if you overprice your house, it will not sell.
Even if you have a Realtor you will need to get the home ready to show.
FSBO people are sometimes very emotional and prices their home above the market. So if you spend a few $$ and get a reputable appraisal, you can use it to sell.
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Typically the best way to sell a house is to price it right at or slightly below market, than you get a lot of interest and sell it fast for a bit more.
I sell 6-10 houses a year usually for my asking, I'm very good at pricing things. Also your first offer is usually your best.
I don't know your market but your talking about very large price fluctuations for houses that are pretty close to each other. Usually you get that if your waterfront or have views.
As said above I would offer a 2% co broke on the MLS, that will get you a lot of the advertising that agents use.
Also don't forget you will have to put a lockbox on the property and you will need to stage it if you want maximum value. Also condition is important, you need to take care of every little detail that buyers see before they see it. Fresh paint never hurts, etc.
Yes, about 150-160 houses on the track is on a hill with terrific view for houses 1 or 2 or more streets up on the hill. Identical house 1 street up the hill demands about $100-150k more.
The house sold for $2.75 was rebuilt 10-12 years ago, from 2600 sq-ft single story to 4500 sq-ft 2-story and it's on third street up the hill.
A neighbor bulldozed their single story house to build 4800 sq-ft 2-story. They bought their house 4-5 years ago, a year after they filled for permission but HOA declined, they sued and finally HOA had to agree.
It's more or less the condition of the house is not so importance in this location, the view and lot size are more importance. There were more than 10 houses had been bulldozed in the last 15 years to build new houses, usually larger.
Sounds like a good market than, I always like seeing tear downs they are an indication of a changing area.
The first lawsuit did everyone a favor, it opened up the gates.
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Typically the best way to sell a house is to price it right at or slightly below market, than you get a lot of interest and sell it fast for a bit more.
I sell 6-10 houses a year usually for my asking, I'm very good at pricing things. Also your first offer is usually your best.
I don't know your market but your talking about very large price fluctuations for houses that are pretty close to each other. Usually you get that if your waterfront or have views.
As said above I would offer a 2% co broke on the MLS, that will get you a lot of the advertising that agents use.
Also don't forget you will have to put a lockbox on the property and you will need to stage it if you want maximum value. Also condition is important, you need to take care of every little detail that buyers see before they see it. Fresh paint never hurts, etc.
Yes, about 150-160 houses on the track is on a hill with terrific view for houses 1 or 2 or more streets up on the hill. Identical house 1 street up the hill demands about $100-150k more.
The house sold for $2.75 was rebuilt 10-12 years ago, from 2600 sq-ft single story to 4500 sq-ft 2-story and it's on third street up the hill.
A neighbor bulldozed their single story house to build 4800 sq-ft 2-story. They bought their house 4-5 years ago, a year after they filled for permission but HOA declined, they sued and finally HOA had to agree.
It's more or less the condition of the house is not so importance in this location, the view and lot size are more importance. There were more than 10 houses had been bulldozed in the last 15 years to build new houses, usually larger.
Sounds like a good market than, I always like seeing tear downs they are an indication of a changing area.
The first lawsuit did everyone a favor, it opened up the gates.
Kestas
Staff member
$60K commission to sell a house?? It's no wonder we have an explosion of people wanting to become real estate brokers. In my circle of friends, I can count at least a dozen that have real estate licenses. A few are professionals; most are dreamers looking for part time work that doesn't requre a college degree or to get their hands dirty, where they can make a quick buck.
I know how hard I work as a professional for $60K. I don't see this same level of work from a realtor.
6% commission may have made sense long ago when the price of houses were more reasonable. With the inflated price of homes nowadays, 6% is too much.
I know how hard I work as a professional for $60K. I don't see this same level of work from a realtor.
6% commission may have made sense long ago when the price of houses were more reasonable. With the inflated price of homes nowadays, 6% is too much.
The commission is split unless the agent is doing both sides. Then you have to pay your broker. Then you have to pay a thousand other expenses. Then taxes. An agent probably clears $6-7K on that $60K commission by the time it's all said and done.
Originally Posted By: hatt
The commission is split unless the agent is doing both sides. Then you have to pay your broker. Then you have to pay a thousand other expenses. Then taxes. An agent probably clears $6-7K on that $60K commission by the time it's all said and done.
Which is still grossly out of proportion for the value that brokers deliver to both buyers and sellers.
I've bought and sold several houses, but I've yet to find an agent that 1. knew the market better than I did after careful research, 2. gave good advice on price and 3. actually earned their cut of the commission. When I total up the hours that they spent with me (an informed buyer/seller with a clear idea of what I wanted), they got an hourly rate similar to a neurosurgeon...
I'll spare you each example, but it's been true in Colorado, Vermont and Virginia over several houses.
Realtors are like the troll in the story of the Billy Goats Gruff - you have to pay them to cross their bridge (access to MLS,, referrals and contacts) but an attorney is far better suited to handle the legal aspects of the sale. A smart buyer and a little time on Zillow can do the comps. You're left with MLS access and a ride in the back of the realtor's really nice car....not exactly a great value.
Fundamentally, their interests don't align with yours: they get a % of the sales price (and as Hatt explained, that percent is cut between buyer and seller's agent, and the agent's company brokerage), but it's still a %. You would think that they want to get you the best price, to maximize their paycheck, right? But it doesn't really work that way. They get that commission for a closing. So, the actual incentive for them is as many closings as possible. If they're off a bit in their advice, you're the one stuck with paying a mortgage for an extra month or two, or paying too much for a house, or selling for too little...but they still get paid at closing. The size of their paycheck is changed but only a little...the key for them is the number of paychecks...and you're just one of the number. If they show you just their "preferred" listings, and you still buy, they minimized their work, and they still got paid...even if you missed out on a listing that would have been better for you. Minimize the time spent with you, get the deal done, that's what they're in the business for.
Unfortunately, most of us are stuck paying tens of thousands of dollars for mediocre advice and modest effort. Precisely because they own the bridge, I would use a realtor, not try a FSBO, so that you're "in the system", but the system is a joke...
So, don't go the FSBO route, use one of these folks, but make certain that you understand their interest and yours. Do your research. Take their advice with a grain of salt.
The commission is split unless the agent is doing both sides. Then you have to pay your broker. Then you have to pay a thousand other expenses. Then taxes. An agent probably clears $6-7K on that $60K commission by the time it's all said and done.
Which is still grossly out of proportion for the value that brokers deliver to both buyers and sellers.
I've bought and sold several houses, but I've yet to find an agent that 1. knew the market better than I did after careful research, 2. gave good advice on price and 3. actually earned their cut of the commission. When I total up the hours that they spent with me (an informed buyer/seller with a clear idea of what I wanted), they got an hourly rate similar to a neurosurgeon...
I'll spare you each example, but it's been true in Colorado, Vermont and Virginia over several houses.
Realtors are like the troll in the story of the Billy Goats Gruff - you have to pay them to cross their bridge (access to MLS,, referrals and contacts) but an attorney is far better suited to handle the legal aspects of the sale. A smart buyer and a little time on Zillow can do the comps. You're left with MLS access and a ride in the back of the realtor's really nice car....not exactly a great value.
Fundamentally, their interests don't align with yours: they get a % of the sales price (and as Hatt explained, that percent is cut between buyer and seller's agent, and the agent's company brokerage), but it's still a %. You would think that they want to get you the best price, to maximize their paycheck, right? But it doesn't really work that way. They get that commission for a closing. So, the actual incentive for them is as many closings as possible. If they're off a bit in their advice, you're the one stuck with paying a mortgage for an extra month or two, or paying too much for a house, or selling for too little...but they still get paid at closing. The size of their paycheck is changed but only a little...the key for them is the number of paychecks...and you're just one of the number. If they show you just their "preferred" listings, and you still buy, they minimized their work, and they still got paid...even if you missed out on a listing that would have been better for you. Minimize the time spent with you, get the deal done, that's what they're in the business for.
Unfortunately, most of us are stuck paying tens of thousands of dollars for mediocre advice and modest effort. Precisely because they own the bridge, I would use a realtor, not try a FSBO, so that you're "in the system", but the system is a joke...
So, don't go the FSBO route, use one of these folks, but make certain that you understand their interest and yours. Do your research. Take their advice with a grain of salt.
Originally Posted By: Astro14
A smart buyer and a little time on Zillow can do the comps.
Last I checked Zillow won't show you what specific houses actually closed for. A true comparable isn't based on asking price, it's based on what similar houses actually sold for. Asking price is pretty much meaningless.
If I'm wrong about Zillow and access to sales history I'd love for somebody to show it.
A smart buyer and a little time on Zillow can do the comps.
Last I checked Zillow won't show you what specific houses actually closed for. A true comparable isn't based on asking price, it's based on what similar houses actually sold for. Asking price is pretty much meaningless.
If I'm wrong about Zillow and access to sales history I'd love for somebody to show it.
True on Zillow with respect to closing. But it does allow for looking at what's on the market. Actual closing data is available in most municipalities, should you care to look.
Again, this would be information that I expect a broker to know, sadly, most don't...
Again, this would be information that I expect a broker to know, sadly, most don't...
Originally Posted By: Astro14
True on Zillow with respect to closing. But it does allow for looking at what's on the market. Actual closing data is available in most municipalities, should you care to look.
Again, this would be information that I expect a broker to know, sadly, most don't...
Yeah, I guess you could probably dig that up via municipality using Zillow to help find similar properties... but that'd probably be a gigantic pain.
I'd rather find a person who has access to the proper databases and toss them a couple hundred bucks to gather than info for me, if I planned on going the FSBO route. If I wasn't going that route my expectation is that the agent I'm interviewing for the job actually shows up with that data in the first place, if they don't they're pretty much useless to me.
True on Zillow with respect to closing. But it does allow for looking at what's on the market. Actual closing data is available in most municipalities, should you care to look.
Again, this would be information that I expect a broker to know, sadly, most don't...
Yeah, I guess you could probably dig that up via municipality using Zillow to help find similar properties... but that'd probably be a gigantic pain.
I'd rather find a person who has access to the proper databases and toss them a couple hundred bucks to gather than info for me, if I planned on going the FSBO route. If I wasn't going that route my expectation is that the agent I'm interviewing for the job actually shows up with that data in the first place, if they don't they're pretty much useless to me.
Originally Posted By: Mykl
Originally Posted By: Astro14
A smart buyer and a little time on Zillow can do the comps.
Last I checked Zillow won't show you what specific houses actually closed for. A true comparable isn't based on asking price, it's based on what similar houses actually sold for. Asking price is pretty much meaningless.
If I'm wrong about Zillow and access to sales history I'd love for somebody to show it.
? I'm missing something, you can see the sold for price on Zillow. It's the little yellow homes on the map no?
the price might be the price with some concessions baked in though - are you talking about something else?
Originally Posted By: Astro14
A smart buyer and a little time on Zillow can do the comps.
Last I checked Zillow won't show you what specific houses actually closed for. A true comparable isn't based on asking price, it's based on what similar houses actually sold for. Asking price is pretty much meaningless.
If I'm wrong about Zillow and access to sales history I'd love for somebody to show it.
? I'm missing something, you can see the sold for price on Zillow. It's the little yellow homes on the map no?
the price might be the price with some concessions baked in though - are you talking about something else?
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