OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Yes, in fact there was a multi-lab analysis posted here recently. It has been done a few times over the years.
Schaeffers 0w-20 3.2k miles / Honda 1.5l DI turbo 69k miles
- Thread starter SammyChevelleTypeS3
- Start date
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Here's one:
A tale of 3 identical VOA samples tested by three different test laboratories...
I thought some may find this interesting. I sent off three different 0w30 oils each to three different laboratories. Each oil was sample was from the same container of each oil. The laboratories i used were: Blackstone Wearcheck Polaris The three virgin samples sent to each lab were...
bobistheoilguy.com
And another good thread on it, they don't have the reports anymore, but the comments are basically Polaris showing 2.5% fuel, Blackstone 0.
Blackstone Labs vs. Oil Analyzers Inc. (Amsoil)
Hello all, Discovered this site when doing some reasearch looking for UOA options. I came across a thread asking about the two and it was suggested to give both a try and compare them side by side to help make a decision, but I couldn't find somewhere that had actually been done so I gave it a...
bobistheoilguy.com
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SammyChevelleTypeS3
$50 site donor 2023
I plan to send one to Amsoil's lab next time. I have some kits right now from Amsoil and Blackstone. Amsoil has upgraded their new kits since the last ones I had. They send you a sealable bag. It is not tyvek like Blackstone. I read a big write up from Blackstone about the challenges they recently went thru dealing with the disfunstional USPO and their leadership. Amazing. Supposedly the USPO has sent out memos to their Post Offices to stop treating the Blackstone packages like they are a bomb or nuclear waste and get them moving. They were some places actually holding them with the excuse "we don't know what to do with these things" ugh.....
Thanks, any comparisons like that on the same used oil sample ? Would be cool if the lab UOAs comparisons also included particle counts. What UOA lab is the better one for most measurement accuracy is the focus.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
See the added thread in the edit.
dnewton3
Staff member
I would caution everyone that comparing singular UOA samples sent to differnt labs is no more accurate than trying to compare/contrast singular oil samples between oil brand and is akin to a fools errand.
To really know how accurate labs are, you'd have to do a gauge R&R study on the equipment and techs, using a lot of controlled samples.
I doubt we'd ever get competing labs to agree to expose their potential success/failure publically.
To really know how accurate labs are, you'd have to do a gauge R&R study on the equipment and techs, using a lot of controlled samples.
I doubt we'd ever get competing labs to agree to expose their potential success/failure publically.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
We are specifically talking about fuel dilution, which Blackstone doesn't measure, while other labs use GC. We've seen very similar results for fuel from Polaris and OAI, but Blackstone is always way off because they don't actually measure it.
dnewton3
Staff member
Blackstone will measure it, but it's an estimate based on the flash-cup method; admittedly not the most accurate.
Still - I stand by my comments regarding R&Rs. Of the many labs I've been in over my many years as a statistical process quality control engineer, I find it somewhat sad that many labs will have their equipment calibrated on a reasonable basis, but have never done a R&R study.
Still - I stand by my comments regarding R&Rs. Of the many labs I've been in over my many years as a statistical process quality control engineer, I find it somewhat sad that many labs will have their equipment calibrated on a reasonable basis, but have never done a R&R study.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
That's what I was getting at. They provide the value, but it's based on flashpoint, which is notoriously inaccurate, if you are concerned about fuel concentration, using a lab that does GC is the best approach.
Legitimate criticism for sure, my comments here are specifically with respect to fuel and if you have a legitimate fuel dilution problem, using an appropriate lab.
IF a laboratory is strictly following the ASTM or ISO test procedures and IF they are using licensed equipment to perform the tests then the reproducibility tolerances in the test will give that information. But sometimes following the test procedures to the letter (including sometimes hours-long calibration sequences for equipment) is deemed too onerous and at that point is when problems start to occur.
But as you and Overkill have noted, the problem here is compounded by the fact that a flash point test is inherently subjective and has high repeatability (and reproducibility). Then you're taking that value and estimating a fuel dilution on top of it. No way you're ever going to have the accuracy of a direct measurement technique.
Yea but even the most noob of BITOGer can make an aducated guess at fuel based soley on flashpoint alone, so what’s the big deal?
Clearly this engine is suffering from an overly rich factory tune, as they all are, and isn’t getting up to temp frequent enough to burn it off appropriately.
Regardless of the fueling issue that plagues these poor engines, it obviously didn’t do jack squat to increase wear n tear for this average daily driver.
I’m sure if this engine was taken to a race track with the low flashpoint, that it can finally be brought up to a temp high enough to cause lubrication issues and thus, extra wear as a result of the fuel, but this isn’t an issue for a grocery getter and that’s Honda’s main audience, isn’t it?
I vote that the OP runs it longer next time, just to see how it will look. I bet fuel concentration increases (even lower flashpoint (duh)) but wear will still be perfectly fine. 🤷🏻♂️
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
I've personally only looked at getting the OAI kits through AMSOIL, as that's the easiest way for me to get them here in Canada. You may be able to get them directly however, have you checked the website?
Seems to be $46 including shipping for one kit.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
PC price is $28.35 + shipping, how much are they dinging you for shipping?
$10 shipping and I am not PC, and plus tax.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
If you are going to buy the kits, getting PC membership probably makes sense.
Yep, I also found coupon with free shipping over $50, so if I buy two it will be $37 per test kit.
SammyChevelleTypeS3
$50 site donor 2023
Poaris... I see a Polaris Labs in Houston, Tx. I only see two sample kits offered on Amsoil site. I just recieved two test kits with an order from Amsoil. How does one identify the connection to Polaris? Is that where Amsoil does their uoa or is it a seperate uoa kit they send out?
I have 5w20 + 0w20 Amsoil stored in my shop. I will just use it all on my 2009 now and probably go to Walmart oils for the 2018 with the shorter
oci. I am shooting between 3000 to 5000. Do not feel right over 5000 oci in that car. I don't anticipate real trouble as I live in a very hot climate. Still running the specified 0w20 yet may go to 0w30 or 5w30 later on once warranty ends.
I have 5w20 + 0w20 Amsoil stored in my shop. I will just use it all on my 2009 now and probably go to Walmart oils for the 2018 with the shorter
oci. I am shooting between 3000 to 5000. Do not feel right over 5000 oci in that car. I don't anticipate real trouble as I live in a very hot climate. Still running the specified 0w20 yet may go to 0w30 or 5w30 later on once warranty ends.