Schaeffer #705 versus #707 confusion

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Dennis_E

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Mar 28, 2009
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North Dakota/Minnesota border
Hello,

I've been off the radar for a while so I was a little surprised when I went into the local NAPA store for my good old Schaeffer 20W-50 V-twin approved racing oil only to be greeted by a new bottle. This new container for product #705 no longer says v-twin approved so I was a bit concerned and confused.

I looked on the Schaeffer web site and saw product #707 listed for what appears to be a dedicated motorcycle oil. Is this correct? It was not listed under the products section, but only in the MSDS/TD section.

Can anybody shed some light on this for me? Is #707 a new product or have I completely missed the sailing of this ship? :)

My application is for a 2005 Harley Davidson 88" big-twin.

Thanks,
Dennis
 
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I'm thinking #707 is a new product. From Schaeffer's TD (technical data) sheets the following is included for the #707 product:

"Supreme Synthetic Plus V-Twin Racing Oil meets and exceeds the following specifications and manufacturers’ requirements: API Service Classification SN, Harley-Davidson® V-Twin specifications and JASO (T903) MA-2 specifications"

Notice that it actually states that it meets HD specifications such as they are. Typically you only see v-twin approved and such. I have never been able to get HD's specs but I'm not any kind of industry insider so I'm glad that Schaeffer could, met it, I'm sure exceeded it, and put it in writing. Bravo Schaeffer!
 
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Schaeffer is very confusing sometimes. Look at the link salesrep posted. The oil is listed as a Racing Oil first. Directly under that is the SN certification. In the description it is then described as a "high zinc containing" oil. Those statements just don't fit together well.
 
"Racing Oil" and the latest SN designation are contrary statements. SM designation limits Zinc to about 600ppm. SN is the same or less. Older designations (SG for example) had about double of that. Most (if not all) "racing" oils aren't SM or SN approved because they contain a higher level of zinc than those specs allow. Same with the "high zinc containing" statement. And many "racing oils" don't have a robust detergent package, being designed to protect an engine well, but for a short period of time, with the oil being changed often. As I said, sometimes the marketing sheets from Schaeffer are confusing. Don't misunderstand what I'm saying. Schaeffer makes very good products, and have a strong following. But the way some of their product descriptions are written throw me for a loop.
 
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beanoil,

Thanks for the reply. Maybe the lower zinc rating has something to do with newer Harleys having catalytic converters? Just something I heard. My '05 doesn't have a cat but I believe the newer ones do.

I do agree with you that Schaeffer does make a very good product. My vehicles run very smooth on their 7000 5w-30.

Thanks again.
 
There are now two variants of this oil, the 705 and the 707. The 705 has a picture of a car on front of bottle and the 707 has a guy on a motorcycle, along with API SN symbol on the back. Just a FYI, the product literature is INCORRECT on the 707 in that it can be used in bikes with Shared sumps..it cannot!

From the Data sheet and I emailed the TECH dept at Schaeffer to verify..
Quote:
Supreme Synthetic Plus V-Twin Racing Oil is not recommended for use in those motorcycle and ATV applications that specify engine oil that meets JASO MA or MB. Use of Supreme Synthetic Plus V-Twin Racing Oil in applications that specify JASO MA or MB oil can cause slippage and improper engagement of the clutch mechanisms.

Supreme Synthetic Plus V-Twin is also not recommended for use in 4-cycle marine engines that specify the use of a NMMA FC or FC-W four cycle engine oil.
 
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"Supreme Synthetic Plus V-
Twin Racing Oil is recommended for use in most 4cycle air
cooled or water cooled motorcycle and ATV engines,including those motorcycles that have a common sump for the engine and transmission(non-metallic clutches only)

Supreme Synthetic Plus V-Twin Racing Oil is not recommended for use in those motorcycle and ATV applications that specify
engine oil that meets JASO MAor MB.Use of Supreme Synthetic
Plus V-Twin Racing Oil in applications that specify JASO MA
or MB oil can cause slippage and improper engagement of the clutch mechanisms.Supreme Synthetic Plus V -Twin is also
not recommendedfor use in 4-cycle marine engines
that specify the use of a NMMA FC or FC-W four cycle engine oil.
Supreme Synthetic Plus V-Twin Racing Oil meets and exceeds the following specifications and manufacturers’ requirements: API Service Classification SM,Harley-Davidson®V-Twin specifications and JASO (T903) MA-2 specifications"
 
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Quote:
Twin Racing Oil is recommended for use in most 4cycle air
cooled or water cooled motorcycle and ATV engines,including those motorcycles that have a common sump for the engine and transmission(non-metallic clutches only)



This is the first paragraph of the data sheet and INCORRECT an error by the TECH Writers. I emailed TODD at TECH Support and he verified the data sheet is in error...if you read further down on the data sheet it states NOT to use it in a Shared sump system!

The Schaffer's reps are telling people it's the same oil as the 705 just repackaged, which is not correct...

I'm not knocking the oil, I use it in my Harley. Just stating that there's confusion on the streets about the 705 and 707 version of the same Supreme 7000 20w-50 oil.
 
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Schaeffer's Tech Dept. is OUTSTANDING with tech, but occasionally there is an editing disconnect between the Schaeffer's published Website tech data sheet and the products actual tech data specifications. I am sure Todd will get it corrected.

Non-metallic clutches is key here.

No-metallic clutches....use it
Metallic clutches....Do Not!
 
Quote:
Supreme Synthetic Plus V-Twin Racing Oil is not recommended for use in those motorcycle and ATV applications that specify engine oil that meets JASO MAor MB.Use of Supreme Synthetic Plus V-Twin Racing Oil in applications that specify JASO MA
or MB oil can cause slippage and improper engagement of the clutch mechanisms


This quote, which is further down on the data sheet shows not to use it in bikes requiring JASO MA or MB. Another words, do not use it in a Harley Primary...or a shared engine/transmission share sump system. Use the old 705...
 
If memory serves, it was at the re-formulation to SM that 705 was no longer recommended for wet clutches and 707 was produced. Both show SM on the data sheets.
 
The bottle of 707 has SN on the API symbol and IS NOT recommended for shared sump bikes. The 705 has no API symbol.

My buddy and I run the 705 in our Harley primary and have no clutch slippage issues.
 
Schaeffer needs better organization. This time the data sheet for #707 says SN, and it also says:
"17. Excellent gear shift quality for smooth operation and protection
18. Excellent wet clutch performance
19. Proper frictional characteristics for wet-clutch engine/transmission systems"

"Supreme Synthetic Plus V-Twin Racing Oil is recommended for use in all 4-cycle air-cooled or water-cooled motorcycle and ATV engines. ... Supreme Synthetic Plus V-Twin Racing Oil meets and exceeds the following specifications and manufacturers’ requirements: API Service Classification SN, Harley-Davidson® V-Twin specifications and JASO (T903) MA-2 specifications"

www.schaefferoil.com/cmss_files/attachmentlibrary/TD Sheets/707.pdf
 
This issue needs to be readdressed as don't see 20w-50 #707 on the website anymore.

The 705 webpage states " 7000™ Synthetic Plus Racing Oil SAE 20W-50 (#705) is not recommended for use in those motorcycle and ATV applications that specify engine oil that meets JASO MA or MB. Use of #705 in applications that specify JASO MA or MB oil can cause slippage and improper engagement of the clutch mechanisms."

Yet the Data Sheet states "Supreme 7000 Synthetic Plus Racing Oil SAE 20W-50 is recommended for use in all 4-cycle air-cooled or water-cooled motorcycle and ATV engines. Supreme 7000 Synthetic Racing Oil SAE 20W-50 can also used in those motorcycles that have a common sump for the engine and transmission."

So, which one is it? Can we use it in Shared sump systems or a Harley Primary (where the clutch is)?

Why was the 707 discontinued?
 
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This issue needs to be readdressed as don't see 20w-50 #707 on the website anymore.

The 705 webpage states " 7000™ Synthetic Plus Racing Oil SAE 20W-50 (#705) is not recommended for use in those motorcycle and ATV applications that specify engine oil that meets JASO MA or MB. Use of #705 in applications that specify JASO MA or MB oil can cause slippage and improper engagement of the clutch mechanisms."

Yet the Data Sheet states "Supreme 7000 Synthetic Plus Racing Oil SAE 20W-50 is recommended for use in all 4-cycle air-cooled or water-cooled motorcycle and ATV engines. Supreme 7000 Synthetic Racing Oil SAE 20W-50 can also used in those motorcycles that have a common sump for the engine and transmission."

Schaffers is about to loose customers!
 
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