Schaeffer 5W30, 5K miles, Sentra SpecV 2.5L

[Bror Jace]

Patman, I'm cross-posting these results on a Nissan forums site and I'll see what that crowd says before making any decisions.

I also want to give Nissan all the chances I can to do the right thing. I'll bury them with documentation, etc ... before considering any other course of action.

If the pre-cat goes 'blooey' and this motor begins to burn oil, I'll simply trade-in the car next year. I've never done that so soon ... but there's always a first time.

I suppose I could replace that ugly octopus-thingy outta my wallet but it's the principle of the thing which will irk me so.

But I'm getting ahead of myself. We'll see what the Nissan guys say first, then go to Nissan HQ.

The bright side of things is that the car currently consumes ZERO oil and the barium doesn't seem to have an effect on engine wear.

--- Bror Jace

 

[zoomzoom]

If you still have warrnaty I would not pay penny out of my pocket...

 

[Bror Jace]

The detailed results of my latest oil sample sent to Blackstone Labs:

'03 Nissan Sentra Spec-V QR25DE 2.5L 4-cyl
Schaeffer 5w30 synthetic blend
Hastings LF240 filter
5,142 mile interval (August to December)
Current mileage on vehicle: 27,754
No make up oil used.

Notes from Blackstone: "TBN = 1.9, vs. 2.3 last sample."

The following are my parts-per-million readings.
Schaeffer / Schaeffer / Red Line / Universal Averages:

Aluminum 3 / 3 / 8 / 3
Chromium 2 / 1 / 2 / 1
Iron 12 / 14 / 23 / 10
Copper 5 / 8 / 7 / 5
Lead 4 / 4 / 12 / 3
Tin 1 / 0 / 0 / 0
Molybdenum 124 / 139 / 278 / 72
Potassium 0 / 0 / 0 / 6
Boron 0 / 1 / 15 / 47
Silicon 12 / 12 / 15 / 12
Sodium 3 / 4 / 17 / 7
Calcium 2172 / 1857 / 2348 / 2128
Magnesium 0 / 4 / 7 / 230 (Blackstone error?)
Phosphorous 807 / 781 / 1077 / 821
Zinc 951 / 943 / 1122 / 994
Barium 20 / 57 / 14 / 2

Flash Point: 400F (should be above 355F)
Fuel: less than 0.5% (should be less than 1.0%)
Sustained viscosity @ 210 58.3 (should be between 53 and 62)
Antifreeze: 0%
Water: 0.0% (should be less than 0.05%)
Insolubles: 0.3% (should be less than 0.6%)

All other values (for rare metals) not listed above are zero (0).

 

[Bror Jace]

Trends improved slightly. My biggest worry was the boron ... and that is down.

Terry was able to guess that I changed brands of gas. That was kinda funny.

I use Fuel Power ... but not in every tankful.

Oil in my sump now is a 60/40 split of Schaeffer 5w30 and Mobil 1 0W-30.

My driving habits are about to change BIG TIME!

I got a new job and I take a park 'n ride. I'm going from driving 50 miles per day to about 10. Assuming I dump this oil in April, it might only have 3,000-3,5000 miles on it.

--- Bror Jace

 

[buster]

So what do you make of the reduction in wear vs the RL sample? Was their a coolant leak? Savenging? I don't know what to make of these reports anymore. $8qt oil being trounced by a $2qt oil?

 

[Whimsey]

quote:

---

Originally posted by buster:
So what do you make of the reduction in wear vs the RL sample? Was their a coolant leak? Savenging? I don't know what to make of these reports anymore. $8qt oil being trounced by a $2qt oil?

---

Buster in all honesty Redline at Advance Auto in NJ is $8.47 with NJ tax. For me to order Schaeffer's 5w30 Supreme Blend is about $4.50, delivered, not the $2.00 you say. But still for the results Schaeffer's Supreme Blend is still quite a bargain. I have to admit I have no idea why Redline throws up the the wear numbers it does. Unless in every UOA shown here it's following using a lesser oil and scavenging their "remains"

.

Whimsey

 

[Terry]

quote:

---

was able to guess that I changed brands of gas. That was kinda funny

---

No guessing.....Please don't use that word.....this is science and voodoo but mostly applied science....

 

[Bror Jace]

Terry, science. Check.

Buster, I’d like to say that Red Line does not seem to be a good fit for this motor ... but I saw one stellar result from it in a QR25DE already. In fact, the result may be posted here somewhere. Search using the key word “QR25DE” and/or “specv” to see it.

My Red Line result above was during the winter (bad) and the car had a warped air filter element letting in all sorts of road salt and other contamination (even worse).

Still, I have come to believe that Red Line simply isn't worth the price unless you are running your engine on the limit of destruction (serious racing). If others can get this ultra-expensive stuff to work well for them, fine. I think I'm done with their PCMOs for now.

I will have this new blend of mine tested in the spring and then may run an interval in the summer using Chevron 5w30 or 10w30 just to see how it stacks up against Schaeffer.

But my driving habits have changed so much now. Gonna be hard to make direct comparisons.

--- Bror Jace

 

[Bror Jace]

'03 Nissan Sentra Spec-V QR25DE 2.5L 4-cyl
Schaeffer 5w30 synthetic blend +
Mobil 1 0w30 (about 50/50 mix)
NAPA Silver filter
3,454 mile interval (December to April)
Current mileage on vehicle: 31,208
No make up oil used.

The following are my parts-per-million readings.
Schaeffer-Mobil 1 / Schaeffer / Schaeffer / Red Line / Universal Averages:

Aluminum 4 / 3 / 3 / 8 / 3
Chromium 2 / 2 / 1 / 2 / 1
Iron 18 / 12 / 14 / 23 / 10
Copper 4 / 5 / 8 / 7 / 5
Lead 6 / 4 / 4 / 12 / 3
Tin 0 / 1 / 0 / 0 / 0
Molybdenum 95 / 124 / 139 / 278 / 72
Potassium 0 / 0 / 0 / 0 / 6
Boron 52 / 0 / 1 / 15 / 47
Silicon 9 / 12 / 12 / 15 / 12
Sodium 4 / 3 / 4 / 17 / 7
Calcium 2229 / 2172 / 1857 / 2348 / 2128
Magnesium 13 / 0 / 4 / 7 / 230 (Blackstone error?)
Phosphorous 820 / 807 / 781 / 1077 / 821
Zinc 972 / 951 / 943 / 1122 / 994
Barium 4 / 20 / 57 / 14 / 2

TBN = 2.4
Flash Point: 390F (should be above 365F)
Fuel: less than 0.5% (should be less than 1.0%)
Sustained viscosity @ 210 57.2 (should be between 56 and 63)
Antifreeze: 0%
Water: 0.0% (should be less than 0.05%)
Insolubles: 0.6% (should be less than 0.6%)

All other values (for rare metals) not listed above are zero (0).

As I said above, this was about a 50/50 mix of Schaeffer 5w30 and Mobil 1 0W-30. I liked the stability of the Schaeffer but the low, low pumping point of the Mobil 1 0W-30.

I wasn't expecting a good result. My commute is now short (7.5 miles each way) ... making the cold weather that much harder for the engine and oil to deal with. The weather here was pretty brutal at times.

Next time, I'll dump the oil even earlier in the spring. The oil was very dark and the new oil going in went 'amber' right away.

Right now I have another mix in the car ... mostly Schaeffer 10w30 but I have some Schaeffer 15w40 and Red Line 5w30 mixed in. Despite my low miles, I'm thinking of dumping this stuff in August and filling up with something else which will take me into December. I had originally thought about leaving this new mix in until December.

--- Bror Jace

 

[buster]

Bror, in all honesty I don't think it matters in this case what oil you run. Your talking about a +/- of 6ppm of wear metals. That is really insignificant, IMHO. So I wouldn't be worried about it.

BTW, at least you practice what you preach. You search out your old threads and post new results. Only reason I don't like that idea is because it might not get the same attention as it would as a stand alone thread.

 

[Bror Jace]

Yeah Buster, you may be right.

However, let the lightweights who are afraid to scroll through a lengthy thread go someplace else. I can live without their participation.

--- Bror Jace

 

[Bror Jace]

Blackstone Lab results:

2003 Nissan Sentra SpecV
Schaeffer: mostly 10w30 with 1 quart of 15w40.
OEM Nissan oil filter
Purolator air filter
4,372 mile interval (April to November)
No top-off oil added during interval.

The following are the parts-per-million values. The results go left to right with the most recent result first on the left. Universal averages last, after the slash.

Aluminum 3 4 3 3 8 / 3
Chromium 1 2 2 1 2 / 1
Iron 12 18 12 14 23 / 10
Copper 5 4 5 8 7 / 4
Lead 6 6 4 4 12 / 3
Tin 1 0 1 0 0 / 0
Molybdenum 93 95 124 139 416 / 71
Nickel 0 1 0 0 0 / 0
Manganese 1 1 3 0 0 / 0
Silver 0 0 0 0 0 / 0
Titanium 0 0 0 0 0 / 0
Potassium 1 0 0 0 0 / 0
Boron 6 52 0 1 15 / 57
Silicon 13 9 12 12 15 / 12
Sodium 1 4 3 4 17 / 10
Calcium 1863 2229 2172 1857 2348 / 2262
Magnesium 7 13 0 4 7 / 160
Phosphorous 797 820 807 781 1077 / 787
Zinc 921 972 951 943 1122 / 937
Barium 37 4 20 57 14 / 3

Flash Point: 380
Fuel: less than 0.5%
Sustained viscosity @210 57.2
Antifreeze: 0%
Water: 0.0%
Insolubles: 0.4%

An OK result, but not exactly stellar. I was pleased the wear was as low as it was with the oil having been in the car for 7 months of short (12 minute) trips. Oil was as black as pitch when I drained it.

But I was nearly dumbfounded that the oil thinned out like it did. Then, I expected to see more fuel and/or insolubles ... but very little show in the sample.

As for additives, I use a couple ounces of Fuel Power in every other tank and for a solid 2 months in the summer, I used Marvel Mystery Oil at the recommended dosage in the fuel. I wonder if the MMO had anything to do with the oil thinning like it did?

--- Bror Jace

 

[04SpecV]

Keep that Silicon up there, keep your Purolator air filter, keep me happy

The lead is higher than mine. Has anything else been changed in these engines aside from piston rings?


As been said before I think these numbers are all fine, I dont think it matters what oil you use.

 

[Bror Jace]

04SpecV, you think my Purolator air filter's doing a sub-par job? It's doing better that the factory air filter was ... with it having warped terribly while in use for just under a year.

The soil around here is very sandy ... and the areas This area is somewhat like a pine barren. The area I drive through (Clifton park, NY) as I go to and from my park-'n-ride lot has a LOT of ongoing construction.

But essentially, I think you are right. This engine seems to do "OK" on lots of different oils.

--- Bror Jace

 

[04SpecV]

quote:

---

04SpecV, you think my Purolator air filter's doing a sub-par job? It's doing better that the factory air filter was ... with it having warped terribly while in use for just under a year.

---

No I'm just saying most of these engines seem to show what some consider high silicon, regardless of filter brand.
I do wonder how that new Purolator Pure one air filter would do.

You know it is a bit odd that your oil visc is so low with 15W40 mixed in. Could those balance shafts have something to do with it?


I dunno abt the fuel additives. I started using SI-1 so I'll see if that hurts my used oil analysis any eventually.

I prefer the mobil 1 myself. It works, not much to talk abt with it though.

[ December 10, 2005, 05:53 PM: Message edited by: 04SpecV ]

 

[Bror Jace]

OK on the air filter. I'll look for the Pure-One this spring when I go to swap mine out.

The thinning is the real reason I posted this UOA. I expected to see something on the high side of a 30 weight ... not a 20 weight.

I think these QR25DE engines are actually kinda mild on oil despite the counter balance shafts doing their thing ... that's why I'm leaning towards blaming the MMO for the thinning. Or someone can tell me how fuel can be present ... but not show in the sample.

Probably good that this was the old formula ... probably before MMO added dichlorobenzene to the mix.

--- Bror Jace

 

[Al]

Yea..not much to say. I don't know about the MMO and the viscosity. Its just a solid consistant oil analysis.

 

[04SpecV]

Isn't the viscosity in the previous UOA the same as the most current one? I missed that before.

 

[Bror Jace]

04SpecV, yes, the same at 57.2 but the last UOA was a winter run and one quart was Mobil 1 0W-30.

This more recent run was summer ... and one of the 4 quarts was a 15w40.

All signs point to fuel thinning the oil despite the test not showing a lot of fuel present when the sample was processed.

I am going to go back to 3 oil changes per year ... even if they will only be about 3,000 - 3,500 miles each.

--- Bror Jace/b]

 

[karst]

Just digging this up to ask you, Bror, a question about Schaeffer. I noticed in some older posts that you used Redline in the past to get rid of piston slap (presumably on another car). You then started using Schaeffer. Did you use Schaeffer on the same car with slap, and if so, did it also mute/mask the slap?

I ask because I have a Subaru Impreza (non-turbo) with annoying slap and am looking to try one of the higher moly oils to see if it helps at all.