Same Engines, different Oils

[caioferrari]

Hi folks,
I was reading a Opel/Vauxhall user manual and I saw that they're recommending 5w30 oils for their engines. Ok, like the americans (the Europeans stayed a lot of time on 5w40 oil).

But there was a big warning saying that if you use A1 oil on that engine, you may have long term damage. So, if you don't find and Opel certified Oil, you must use an A3 oil instead.

In America, GM cars that use the same Ecotec engine, runs with A1 oil!

So, what's the difference? Americans do not care about the durability of the engine?

 

[d00df00d]

I'm sure climate and oil change intervals have something to do with it.

What are the oil change intervals for the two cars you mentioned?

 

[gfh77665]

Yep. Honda wants you to use 0-20 or 5-20 here in the US, but around the globe the same engines use 30 wts. CAFE. Go figure.

 

[blue94]

What's the recommended oil change interval (OCI) in the different locations? Is the OCI longer in the areas specing the A5 oil? If they use oil life monitors, is the calibration different? As a general observation, oil is run longer in other areas of the globe compared to the US so an A5 or A3 would be better than A1 in those areas. We're still stuck on short OCIs b/c oil is cheap here compared to elsewhere.

 

[thehkp7m13]

Originally Posted By: blue94
What's the recommended oil change interval (OCI) in the different locations? Is the OCI longer in the areas specing the A5 oil? If they use oil life monitors, is the calibration different? As a general observation, oil is run longer in other areas of the globe compared to the US so an A5 or A3 would be better than A1 in those areas. We're still stuck on short OCIs b/c oil is cheap here compared to elsewhere.

Basically what I was going to say. But, I am not complaining abotu cheap oil because I don't mind pulling the plug a little more often.

 

[Ursae_Majoris]

OP--is it a flex-fuel car? From what I heard ethanol-powered cars are very common in Brazil. In US we have flex-fuel cars, but no ethanol-filling station. I wonder if burning 85% or even 100% ethanol is harder on oil and that's why GM requires better oils in Brazil.

 

[blue94]

the general consensus here is that ethanol is harder on oil b/c it depletes the TBN faster.

 

[d00df00d]

To be a little more exact: ethanol attracts water, which increases acid formation, which depletes TBN faster.

Good call on the ethanol idea by the way, Ursae_Majoris. Interested to hear the answer.

 

[Steve S]

What is the oil change interval? The A3 oil for example is a more heavy duty rating. There is aa ACEA website that defines the meanings of the oil ratings.

 

[Ursae_Majoris]

Thank you. I heard the same thing as well, but I could not remember the source, so I did not want to say it categorically.

 

[UNC017]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
To be a little more exact: ethanol attracts water, which increases acid formation, which depletes TBN faster.



Ethanol also has to be fuelled in a much richer mixture for stoichiometric combustion, so there's simply a lot more volume of ethanol in the cylinder, and therefore blowing by the rings, than gasoline.

I'm not so sure that ethanol being miscible with water is the big deal, its the fact that it (with or without water) dilutes the oil more. The fact that it gets in the oil and then attracts water certainly doesn't help, though.

 

[caioferrari]

Ok,

The Change Intervals are:
5000km for American Chevy
30000km for Opel

There is a point but, we have A5 oil thinner like A1 but specified for long intervals and Opel doesn't recommend it.
If the change interval is a problem, I believe that they could put in manual something like this: If you use an A1 oil, you must change it each 5000km.

I think that there is something different between American vs Europeans. Even the manufacturers that doest recommend extended oil drain (like Fiat or Peugeot - about 10000 or 15000km) uses A3 oils. I dont believe CAFE is the reason for that since the increase in MPG using a 5w30 A1 instead of an A3 is something near of zero.

About Ethanol, although I am Brazilian I'm comparing American Chevy with European Opel.
Just in case... here in Brazil, General Motors uses 5w30 A1 oil in every model.

 

[blue94]

30000km = 18641 miles. I'd be darn sure to use an A3 or A5 oil with that oci. I'm not at all surprised that it's required now.

 

[caioferrari]

...we have A5 oil thinner like A1 but specified for long intervals and Opel doesn't recommend it. (ONLY A3 are recommended)

 

[d00df00d]

Maybe the thicker spec is recommended in case shearing or fuel dilution occurs. I can see how that would be more of a concern with a longer drain interval.

Another possibility: Maybe the European engines are made to withstand higher oil temperatures than the American ones, and the A3 recommendation is simply carried over from other markets where they see those temperatures regularly.

Just guessing here, really. Hopefully someone better informed can chime in.

 

[unixguru]

I think 30000 km is with oil life monitor. My Ecotec 2.2 engine shows 'change oil' anywhere between 3700 miles to 7800 miles depending on driving conditions regardless mineral or synthetic.

 

[ottotheclown]

It just is a money thing, we all know how important that is. So do as you think,

and do not try to figure it out beyond $$$$$$$$$
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
Yep. Honda wants you to use 0-20 or 5-20 here in the US, but around the globe the same engines use 30 wts. CAFE. Go figure.

 

[caioferrari]

Originally Posted By: unixguru
I think 30000 km is with oil life monitor. My Ecotec 2.2 engine shows 'change oil' anywhere between 3700 miles to 7800 miles depending on driving conditions regardless mineral or synthetic.


But your Ecotec is american, right?

30000km are for the europeans with Long Life Oil.