Run Lawnboy 2-stroke 100-1 with AMsoil

[OilNerd]

Can't say about the Saber 100:1, as I have no experience with it yet. But I recently came into possession of a Craftsman 3HP 20" Single-stage snow thrower, which also specifies a 32:1 mix.

After burning off some accumulated crankcase oil buildup and old fuel, I used some regular 87 octane with Super Tech Universal 2-Cycle Engine Oil at 32:1 (the clear bottle with measuring top, not the blue Warren bottle).

The oil is cheap ($3.47/16 oz.), has a handy ratio measuring top, and interestingly enough, had a Pennzoil-formatted date code printed on the back of the measure top, in the same format as Pennzoil Outdoor Air-Cooled: HIPHA0911394/05189. (Any inside info, Johnny?)

Just a little blue smoke on startup, then hardly anything visible seconds after removing the choke. Of course, I don't have snow to plow in September, so there was no load on the engine, but I was satisfied with the test startup.

From the bottle: "Specially formulated for use in high-performance air-cooled 2-cycle engines such as lawn mowers, string trimmers and chain saws..." I'm really curious if this is the venerable Pennzoil Outdoor Air-cooled in 16 oz. form. It seems to only be available in 8 oz. bottles now. The color and smell is the same as Pennzoil Air-Cooled.

 

[Craig in Canada]

Originally Posted By: OilNerd
Can't say about the Saber 100:1, as I have no experience with it yet. But I recently came into possession of a Craftsman 3HP 20" Single-stage snow thrower, which also specifies a 32:1 mix.


I've seen a lot of two-stoke snowthrowers require TCW3 (ie. outboards and other water-cooled two-strokes) oil instead of the usual air-cooled oil. I guess it's because of the lower operating temps of snow machines.

Carefully look for authoritative documentation on your gear to make sure you use the proper oil.

 

[OilNerd]

An excellent point. I couldn't find the exact manual for the snow thrower, long since discontinued by Sears, but a found one for another model, with the self-propelled option, using the same engine. Oddly enough, it specifies air-cooled two cycle oil (no TC spec.)

I suspect it precedes the TC-W3 spec. by at least a decade, and maybe even the TC spec. Maybe I should update my equipment! Guess I'm just cheap.

 

[Cmarti]

Cujet and TDIRick know their stuff, and have cited tests that show that extreme high ratios may not be best for wear and have lower HP. I run Stihl HP synthetic at 40:1 (a 50:1 oil)for everything I have(ratings 16:1 to 50:1. I should probably go to 32:1, based on what they say, but am hard headed. Is this the most over debated topic in oil? Other than the early debate on 5W20, probably. .....but thats why we are here.

 

[Pablo]

In Canada, with that engine, you can run Amsoil Saber PRO at 100:1 and not have any excess wear. If some of the chat here needlessly worries you, you can go to 50:1 without issues.

No one (maybe Optima2) recommends 100:1 in highly loaded racing applications.

 

[Craig in Canada]

Originally Posted By: OilNerd

I suspect it precedes the TC-W3 spec. by at least a decade, and maybe even the TC spec. Maybe I should update my equipment! Guess I'm just cheap.

Welcome to the club

My 1986 Toro 824 out-throws all of the newer stuff on the street. Why "upgrade"?

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted By: Cmarti
I run Stihl HP synthetic at 40:1 (a 50:1 oil)for everything I have(ratings 16:1 to 50:1. I should probably go to 32:1, based on what they say, but am hard headed.


Not at all. Lawn equipment and general purpose 2 stroke engines have very low stress levels. Even chainsaws that run 13,000 RPM have low stress. They only make 3.3HP per 50cc (6.6HP for every 100cc) Where Kart engines are 48HP at 125cc. Big difference in internal stress levels.

So, it follows that 50 to 1 works very well in lawn equipment.

I personally run 32 to 1 in all my lawn equipment. However, it's not the engine that wears out first.

 

[Johnny]

Cujet, what 2-cycle oil do you use in your lawn equipment?

 

[bluestream]

Bump!

 

[Thundercraft]

Ams actually tested their sabre to 200:1
The 100:1 recommendation gives a wide safety margin.

people still mix 25:1 or 32:1 ???

 

[Johnny]

Originally Posted By: Thundercraft

people still mix 25:1 or 32:1 ???



All the time for me at 32:1 in everything from Lawn Boy mowers and edgers to my Stihl equipment.

 

[crinkles]

i do 1:25 in my chinese 2 strokes. I use Mobil 2T "synthetic technology" motorcycle oil.

 

[Andyge]

I have 30 year old lawnboy for past 5 year I have been running amsoil saber pro in it at 100:1


Andy

 

[SWSportsman]

Originally Posted By: hate2work
...Husky, Echo, Stihl all make good oils...


Do you really think those companies are in the oil "making" business?

 

[SWSportsman]

Originally Posted By: jimvegas
...A properly tuned two-stroke will not smoke AT ALL on 32:1 after it's warmed up...... More oil makes more power and less carbon buildup...


Some folks post the craziest things on the internet!!!

 

[SWSportsman]

Originally Posted By: SWSportsman
Originally Posted By: jimvegas
...A properly tuned two-stroke will not smoke AT ALL on 32:1 after it's warmed up...... More oil makes more power and less carbon buildup...


Some folks post the craziest things on the internet!!!


I apologize for that last post. It is what I was thinking, but not what I should have typed!

Just the thought of 32:1 burning without any visible "smoke" is enough to make anyone laugh though.

 

[boraticus]

I run Echo equipment with 50:1 ratio. Once warmed up, I don't see any smoke. So, I wouldn't totally discount that there would be no visible smoke at 32:1 if the carb is properly set to burn a bit toward the lean side.

I agree that the part about the OPE manufacturers making their own oil is a bit incredulous. Pass the Koolaid.......

 

[tdi-rick]

Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada
Originally Posted By: Cujet

16 to 1 will result in more HP as will 8 to 1 if you can get it to run cleanly.


How does burning less fuel result in more HP? In the extreme case - if oil releases more energy than gasoline why not just run 100% oil? Or 50:50?

[snip]



Simple. Better ring seal.

It's been proven time and again in dyno and track testing of various two stroke race engines that more oil results in better power release, and in high performance applications like karts it also prevents little end failure and piston skirt seizure.
Kart engine routinely run 16-18:1 on the modern synthetic and castor/synthetic blends. The mix ratio hasn't changed since I ran rotary valved air cooled screamers on castor oil 25 years ago.

Less fuel in the mix at 16:1 ? re-tune the carburettor !

I'm not advocating 16:1 in a saw, they are designed to run around the 50:1 and as cujet says, they have a low BMEP compared to karts and bikes, even when modified.
Plenty of people run their saws at 40 or 32:1 with the high performance synthetic two stroke oils and when tuned correctly report no carbon buildup in the exhaust port or on the piston crown.

 

[SWSportsman]

Originally Posted By: boraticus
...I wouldn't totally discount that there would be no visible smoke at 32:1 if the carb is properly set to burn a bit toward the lean side....


My experience is with 3 Lawn Boys, all tuned to perfection (at least tuned to run perfectly). They all produce visible smoke with a variety of oils, including the newest, a DuraForce that runs very lean. I can't recall EVER seeing a Lawn Boy mower that didn't produce visible smoke. Heck, seeing (and smelling) the smoke is a fun part of the LB experience!

 

[boraticus]

Originally Posted By: SWSportsman
Originally Posted By: boraticus
...I wouldn't totally discount that there would be no visible smoke at 32:1 if the carb is properly set to burn a bit toward the lean side....


My experience is with 3 Lawn Boys, all tuned to perfection (at least tuned to run perfectly). They all produce visible smoke with a variety of oils, including the newest, a DuraForce that runs very lean. I can't recall EVER seeing a Lawn Boy mower that didn't produce visible smoke. Heck, seeing (and smelling) the smoke is a fun part of the LB experience!


Your smoking Lawn Boy engines might have something to do with engine wear and/or build tolerances. I have a 140cc Echo two stroke lawn mower that runs virtually smokeless once it's warmed up. Even my old vintage Yamahas run pretty clean once they're warmed up. They have oil injection pumps and oil ratio fluctuates with engine demand. They are pretty smoky until they reach operating temperatures though.