Rough week with older cars

[Toyotech454]

Seems like mostly bad luck, most of this isn't on the OP. A cooling system issue on a 2018 is disappointing but does happen, a bad starter is also just what happens sometimes, not many people replace starter motors preventatively. The ILX not starting because of a dead battery after a month of sitting is easily preventable though, all cars post 2010 need to be started and run every 3 weeks unless proven to hold a charge longer. No sense having a spare car that you can't take to work in a pinch.

 

[Leo99]

I think some are being needlessly hard on the OP.

Tiguan - At that kind of mileage something like a WP failing is to be expected, I certainly wouldn't proactively replace a perfectly good WP unless it was part of a TB service

ILX - Battery that was less than 1 year old failed. Bad luck, got a bad battery

RDX - Starter went bad, again an older car with a failure like this happens. Another part I wouldn't proactively replaced. Sounds like the battery tested bad too, that's something I would have investigated further when buying the car and going through it for deferred maintenance

Some of the issues are maintenence or surveillance related. It's difficult if the cars are not driven daily. It's getting to a point where I need to start inspecting my cars weekly for problems. My wife and I will notice if it takes a split second longer to start the car.

The negative cable in my sons Forte corroded out and reduced the cable. It had a flat braid cable and under the covering it looked like a science experiment. Probably 1/2 the cable had corroded through. Terminals were clean as was rest of motor etc. Fortunately he just needed a new cable and have the ground bolt drilled/tapped as bolt was frozen solid and snapped.

Could all happen together, sure, I think. Starter getting older and weaker, putting harder load on battery and crappy cable. I'd probably do the battery and cable myself and go from there. If starter needed like other high mileage Honda's, shop may get that job.

@andrew_j 's daughters car, not started for over a month with single digits? Yea that could need at least a charge if not replacement. When my daughter and father in law traveled for at least a week I would take their car to work one day each week just to get running and full temperature.

At a certain point, older cars need routine inspections to look for worn parts. I've been lax lately, but tomorrow should be a good day to poke around engine bays looking for potential issues. My battery + terminal could use a good cleaning.

 

[Arc]

Never ever let the wifes car break down. That's just asking for trouble.

 

[andrew_j]

Did OP learn any lessions from this?

Curious do you preemptively replace starters/cable and water pumps? Or don’t drive older/high mileage vehicles ?

The dead Acura ILX is on me, the trickle charger I simply did not connect up.

 

[Leo99]

Curious do you preemptively replace starters/cable and water pumps? Or don’t drive older/high mileage vehicles ?

The dead Acura ILX is on me, the trickle charger I simply did not connect up.

I've replaced starter when it made a little clank noise indicating the little gear wasn't retracting fully. Didn't wait for it to fully break. I'd replace a cable if it started to look less than 100%. I noticed some pink foam in my Toyota bay near the water pump and knew that was coming from the coolant so I replaced the water pump.

Older cars that sit are difficult to know intimately.

 

[Donald]

Curious do you preemptively replace starters/cable and water pumps? Or don’t drive older/high mileage vehicles ?

The dead Acura ILX is on me, the trickle charger I simply did not connect up.

For a started or battery cable or battery I would think one might notice something like the sound of the starter turning over the engine. Water pump might have a weep hole to signal things are going south.

On my boat I preemptively replace raw water impeller every year.

 

[Capt W]

said starter , battery cable and battery need replacement $1300(only use OEM parts).

OP is a ROI focused guy when it comes to vehicles-- he only performs the bare minimum to keep a car running.

In general (not talking about anyone specifically), old car ownership and operation - especially as primary/daily drivers - is probably best left to those with the requisite knowledge, skills, and abilities to keep them going. If a person has to take them to a shop for every little issue, the value proposition is pretty quickly diminished.

For example, the OP's starter, battery, and cable job (reman Denso starter) would run under $300.00 in parts and take a few hours as a DIY project.

I recently tried to dissuade a good friend from buying a very clean 1995 vehicle, as he's basically incapable/unwilling to go the extra mile in maintaining an older car. He'll drive the heck out of it and take it to a shop when something breaks. Classic case of penny-wise and dollar foolish. But at the end he had to have it. Probably won't end well.

Older cars are kind of like older people. They need a bit of extra care, shouldn't be abused, and require specific knowledge of the type's idiosyncrasies in order to remain a good value for the operator.

And as stated by many, having sources for good quality replacement parts, including OEM, is absolutely vital. More often than not, you're not making an easy trip to Auto Zone or O'Reilly when something goes south.

 

[Ronsant]

I think some are being needlessly hard on the OP.

Tiguan - At that kind of mileage something like a WP failing is to be expected, I certainly wouldn't proactively replace a perfectly good WP unless it was part of a TB service

ILX - Battery that was less than 1 year old failed. Bad luck, got a bad battery

RDX - Starter went bad, again an older car with a failure like this happens. Another part I wouldn't proactively replaced. Sounds like the battery tested bad too, that's something I would have investigated further when buying the car and going through it for deferred maintenance

Older cars need to be on a maintenance battery charger when not in daily use.

 

[Hohn]

You can definitely save money keeping vehicles a long time however these factors you’ve experienced can not only be inconvenient, these situations are taking a safety risk with family. There’s no planning where the inevitable breakdown will occur.

They’re also preventable quite frequently.

 

[Springer2]

Sorry, I can't relate. We have a 2015 F150 (70K), 2013 Honda CR-V (217K), and a 2009 Lexus RX350 (149K). I change oil regularly, use good filters, check wearables on schedule, and the vehicles rarely have issues but when they do I address them right away. I use quality parts but they do not have to be OEM stamped. We Plan to keep them unless something changes.

 

[PontiacHO]

They’re also preventable quite frequently.

Could you share your prescribed preventative plan please? Thanks.

 

[SOUNDMAN5000]

I agree. And as someone else said, sometimes a perfect storm type thing just happens. Also the repair bill on RDX would probably not have been that much cheaper had OP had them use aftermarket parts. And being in the situation he was in at the time I think made he made the right decision getting the car repaired where he did.

One thing I'm surprised about though is OP has no AAA? My wife and I have been with them for about 2 decades and have never regretted that decision. Saved many times in unforeseen circumstances as well as helping friends out of a jam a few times.

I hate it for OP, I think many of us have had that time we had some bad luck with our older cars.

I had this one old Mercedes that almost got the best of me! If I had not at AAA and an inexpensive mechanic I don't know what I would have done. With AAA you get (4) Tows per year. One year I used all my (4) Tows, all (4) of my wife tows and all (4) of my moms tows. The AAA tow truck driver knew me by name and did't even have to ask the name of the garage..

I must give credit as AAA is the best money one could spend period! I have used AAA for out of the box things such as I was showing a property to a prospective tenant, She pulled in behind me ( blocking me in ) and locked her keys in her car!

I called AAA and the honest truth AAA was in my driveway with-in 5 min, had her unlocked and out of my way so I could go about my business.

I got a AAA jump at 5am the morning of my young daughters out of town major surgery... Was a very stressful time and a car that would not start was not an option!

I now have a big Ram 3500, Motorcycles, so I now spend a bit over $200 a year on the TOP Premium AAA RV plan so all my motorcycles are covered, my Big truck and all my other cars a camper and with the top plan I get a 200 mile tow!

I love AAA, always around on those tuff days things don't start or a door won't open and you need a little help with BIG car / truck / motorcycle problems!

 

[Hohn]

Could you share your prescribed preventative plan please? Thanks.

The OP had three consecutive failures, all of which are progressive in nature that provide warning. The overheating of the Tiguan is due to a radiator obstruction (bugs, grease, etc) or low coolant level. A water pump failure would not allow any "babying" it would just overheat and you'd be powerless to do anything about it. Monitoring the coolant level may have given a heads up on this before it actually had any overheating. LIkewise for maintaining the radiator to be free of airflow obstruction.

The backup vehicle had a no-start condition due to a weak battery. Batteries almost never just "go bad" like a lightswitch event. They decline and then suddenly become no longer capable when a high-demand condition reveals what has been hiding in plain sight.

For example, the battery on my GX had a couple slow cranks this winter in temps of 15F or so. So I will be replacing it before next winter because there's obviously reason to believe it will fail to start next winter. If I wasn't paying attention to this or just chalked it up as a normal "cold start", I'd probably just waltz into this winter thinking all was fine when it wasn't. It's a cheap battery and 3 years old and subjective to frequent short trips that often do not allow full charge restoration.


Anyway, in the OP's case, the 3rd vehicle probably failed the starter by prolonged cranking on a weak battery. The low voltage of the weak battery under load causes current to spike very high-- which combines with excessive cranking time to burn out the starter.

Starter failures do happen without any abuse or neglect. But the coexistence of starter AND battery AND cable all being replaced strongly suggests that the starter was a secondary failure. It's possible (though unlikely) that a bad starter can fail the battery, but that is exceedingly rare because high-current events tend to create open circuits, not short circuits. (think melted fuse element).


All three of these failures likely could have been prevented with some regular observation of the engine's fluid levels and starting behavior. Most places will load test a battery for free. Why not have the battery tested before the winter comes?

I drive older vehicles in general. IN the fall of 2023 I had three vehicles with a combined age of 46 years and combined miles of 570,000. That's an average age of 15.3 years and average mileage of 190,000.

Selling my 07 for a newer Accord in Jan 2024 really pulled down the average of both age and miles, but the point here is that I have extensive experience with what is required to keep older vehicles on the road. They require considerable monitoring.

Despite our penchant for older paid-for vehicles, my wife has been stranded exactly one time in 24 years. (2005 Odyssey died when it drank oil from stuck PCV). And even that event was preventable if I had been paying more attention to the intake cleanliness which would have given warning of the engine's oil ingestion under VCM. The top cover of the intake manifold is held on with a couple bolts and easily accessible. Why did I not remove and inspect the engine's intake at least once in 20 years?

Even that was preventable if I'd been paying more attention to it. Thankfully there was no permanent damage and cleaning the intake and unsticking the PCV was sufficient to get it back on the road. It remains in service still.

 

[Capt W]

Could you share your prescribed preventative plan please? Thanks.

Aside from your specific maintenance regimen, there's really no prescribed plan other than really knowing your vehicles (to include common failure points) and simply making routine inspections at more frequent intervals than one would conduct with a newer car.

As an example, most 1980s Chrysler vehicles suffer from worn/deteriorated wiper arm bushings. Discovering this during a rainstorm is obviously not optimal. They should be checked every few years and changed as required.

Most Chrysler timing belts have specified change intervals. They have to be checked every few years and should be preemptively replaced. Break the belt and you're dead in the water. Don't let it happen.

Many early 2000s vehicles eventually pop a P0456 code for "very small EVAP leak." Owning a 20-dollar smoke machine will help you pinpoint the leak(s) and get that annoying check engine light to switch off.

Almost every old car will eventually suffer from crispy-crittered vacuum lines and electrical wiring...especially when subjected to under-hood heat. Have to check these items frequently and have spares handy.

Checks include frequent looks at everything under the hood and rolling under the vehicle to make inspections more often to check things like steering and suspension components, checking the water pump weep hole, CV joints and boots, etc.

The best prevention is to know your car well and address issues before they arise.

Another strategy I have is maintaining bench stock of high-wear and other items. I have ample supply of pads, rotors, brake hardware, belts/hoses, and even an extra radiator and two fuel pumps. I got most of this stuff from swap meets, ebay, and the Rock Auto closeout section for pennies on the dollar.

My stash came in very handy last month when my '86 Daytona wouldn't start after we visited a local restaurant. When I turned the ignition to the "on" position there was no audible buzz from the fuel pump (it's usually very noticeable). I decided to use AAA to get it home (free tow at 7 miles), and sure enough that 40-year-old fuel pump had up & died.

Dropped the tank, grabbed a new Carter pump (paid a bit over $8.00 for it) from my attic, and went to town. Since the tank was out of the car, it was a great time to clean and repaint that tank, change all the fuel injection hose (from my big rolls of 1/4" and 5/16" fuel line), change the filter, and install a new filler neck grommet. Was all done by late afternoon (mainly to let the paint dry) and was back in business.

Although we primarily use the Daytona for local errands, I would not hesitate to take her on a road trip.

In short, there's no magic bullet. Folks who know their cars know what they're doing and make regular inspections almost unconsciously. It's almost one of those "If I have to explain it to you..." situations. Car guys just know what to do.

 

[crashz]

OP, can we proceed with the flogging?

FYI - little trivia, NH was the first state in the union to use road salt to treat our roads. Another fun fact, we are one of many states that now have chloride problems in our groundwater.

The battery thing on the spare care is on the OP. And he admitted that. Bad OP!

The Tiguan is the lovely 2.0 E888 that has a timing chain driven water pump. No weep hole and has been known for decades to loose pump fins on the plastic impeller. Assuming you have a little flow, you can limp it home. However they do provide a little warning. Heat in the winter gets worse and worse and the car stays cold too long as well. But if your wife is not attune to this, it gets to the point of failure before you know it. My wife will drive for days with the check engine light on before telling me, even after I lose my mind over this behavior.

The other Acura: If its anything like my Hondas, its impossible to see the starter and connection points. But salty water spray can get in there and corrode the wires right behind the connectors. And when you rip half the car apart to get to it, you might as well replace the starter to save doing it twice. Again, if you are really in tune with it, you may feel it cranking slower ahead of time. But we did just have an extreme cold snap so that that's easily masked.

Older cars are a pleasure until you depend on them as daily drivers. Then they just suck. I feel like I'm constantly working on something just to keep them running. I've spend weeks chasing down a noise that I still can't find in my F250 and its driving me nuts.

 

[Capt W]

Older cars are a pleasure until you depend on them as daily drivers. Then they just suck.

I've daily driven my old Dodge Daytona for almost 20 years. It's fine. Even has frosty-cold A/C to cope with the Texas summers (installed it myself).

I feel like I'm constantly working on something just to keep them running.

Perhaps, but it's all part of the hobby. Some may say passion. Most of us don't mind. It's definitely not for everyone, though. That's one of the problems with the plethora of YouTube videos showing how "cool" and inexpensive it is to simply drive an old car. With old cars come certain requirements, such as the abilities to diagnose and repair them...and having copious amounts of patience.

If you don't enjoy them it's probably a losing proposition. You can't always measure the dollars and cents or you'll go nuts.

A few months back my muffler and over-the-axle pipe developed large holes (undoubtedly the results of spending 7+ years in the snowy and salty St. Louis area). While inspecting the rest of the exhaust I discovered the catalytic converter failed internally and sounded like a tin can full of marbles. I replaced the entire system front-to-back. The replacement cat was $150.00, the muffler was $30.00, the over-the-axle pipe was $8.00, and I had to have a local shop fabricate the long extension pipe (obsolete) for $70.00. I had the clamps, donut gasket, and some rubber hangers in bench stock. The whole job took about two hours and cost me about $285.00.

Most people would (correctly) calculate that repair as being over 10% of the car's worth. Probably not worth it. But I never gave it a second thought. Where else could I get a rot-free 40-year-old daily driver with only 101K original miles? And that $75.00 every six months for insurance certainly doesn't hurt.

These are just the frequent tribulations of being an old-school car guy, and we accept them. Again, it's not for everyone...and that's OK.

And personally, I don't consider any of the OPs vehicles to be old. Our newest car is a 2008 Charger R/T I bought new. And that thing still amazes me as a high-tech marvel with far too many gizmos and gadgets.

 

[Bob in Utah]

Fortunately wife and I both retired and have no daily commute

My hobbies include keeping our old fleet up to snuff

Daily beater on the road every day somewhere…’01 Land Cruiser

Utah native with some rust but fully maintained…364K miles

‘03 Lexus LX 470… AZ native with -0- rust…currently hibernating with 220K miles

‘02 Chevy 2500HD crew…bought new in ‘02…147K miles with -0- rust…highway cruiser

‘11 Lexus GX 460…bought used from Vegas with 95K miles now has 157K miles..no rust

No…do not need four 4x4 vehicles….but have them anyway

If ever to thin the herd ? The ‘03 and ‘11 would go…

Replace with a 2014-2018 200 series Land Cruiser

 

[IndyIan]

Curious do you preemptively replace starters/cable and water pumps? Or don’t drive older/high mileage vehicles ?

The dead Acura ILX is on me, the trickle charger I simply did not connect up.

I read the Tiguan does have a weep hole for the water pump, but there's a near zero chance of my wife noticing a small drip or smell to detect that. I do like having the scanguage plugged in and on the gauge cluster, to have some actual useful information on voltage and water temps, which maybe would've shown that the water temps were creeping up on the last few drives? You can set your own alarms for much lower variations than would set a dash light.
My wife's 2018 Outback is getting the age/miles where some issues are certainly possible, maybe I should plug in the scanguage with some useful alarms set and then she will let me know that day, that the car was making some annoying beeping noises!

 

[crashz]

I'm just whining because I spent a good portion of the weekend chasing things on my truck and didn't get the progress I had hoped for. Generally, I appreciate an older vehicle and very much enjoy working on them. But its the weird stress of having a daily driver down or not 100% that bothers me.

 

[fdcg27]

Cars do break and the older they are the more likely a breakdown is.
Simple fact of life.
When we have owned and driven older high miles vehicles, we never did have much trouble, but keeping after them to ensure their reliability is hobby as someone else noted above. Failures are not necessarily predictable either.
We have never been faced with three cars down at once, but that is at least partly down to luck.
In this case, the OP was very unlucky, although the little Acura really should have been on a battery maintainer, if only to preserve the life of the battery.