I have a WheelHouse 5500 rated watt generator with a single cylinder Briggs engine ready for it's first oil change with about 10 hours on the unit. I am thinking of using Shell ROTELLA T6 5w-40 because I've heard many good things about this oil on the bitog site. The B&S is an "Industrial PLUS" model and the owners manual calls for using syn 5w30 or 10w-30 ILSAC GF-2 with API SJ/CF Energy Conserving or higher. Any thoughts on using the T-6 in this application would be appreciated. Oil change interval is 100 hours regardless of oil used.
ROTELLA T6 in B&S powered generator
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Good choice.
Pondered this question last week. I have a B&S 6K genny with the 11 HP engine. If you go to the B&S website and search you will find the oil recommendations for their engines. Although a good oil, 5W40 is not recommended. I found a note saying that 40w oils were not recommended to prevent start up cylinder wall scuffing in cold temperatures. It may also be to heavy to lube the cylinder walls when hot. Anyway, they don't show any 40W recommendations.
Being old school, I believe air cooled engines would, if they had a choice, prefer a single grade oil. Although modern multi-grades may be fine. According to the B&S manuals... "air cooled engines will burn 1 oz of oil/cylinder/hour" when using multi-grades. With at 28oz sump... Theoretically, you could use 13 oz of oil, assuming a 7 gallon fuel load and a 13 hour run time, ... about half of the oil fill. Oil consumption needs to watched closely.
Sorting through their recommendations I concluded, again......
Oil selection is based on the range of hottest and coldest temperatures expected during the next OCI. No surprise here. The oil with the broadest temperature range is synthetic 5W30. About -14 to 100+F, if I recall. Synthetic for easy starting and flow when its really cold. A 30W goes from about 40F to 104F.
Winters here, if you call it that, are somewhere in the 40s and my genny is stored indoors where is in 50s most of the time. (It will be a very cold day in [censored] when the temperatures drop to near zero and stay there in Texas Hill Country.) Hottest? Oh, 'bout 100 to 105. This is well within the operating range of a straight 30 weight.
Since a 'straight' 30W will protect in the temperatures I expect to see over the next year that's what I'm using. The B&S HD30 from Home Depot is an excellent choice.
NOTE: Previously, I lived in central Maryland where the winters could be in the teens and near zero on occasion and summers near 100. Per recommendation, I used synthetic 5W30 (Syntec). This oil probably had nearly 50 hours on it, having been used for 6 days during the '04 hurricane in Maryland and at various times since then. I didn't have an hour meter on it at the time but since installing one afterward, it clocked 14 hours in 5 years. The oil was black but still working when I changed it last week.
For you... the 5W30 syn would be the choice due to its low temperature applications. A 10W30 is good only to about mid 20's if I recall.
I hope this helps...
Here's a link with info and chart....
http://www.briggsandstratton.com/maint_repair/routine_maintenance/changing_oil/
Being old school, I believe air cooled engines would, if they had a choice, prefer a single grade oil. Although modern multi-grades may be fine. According to the B&S manuals... "air cooled engines will burn 1 oz of oil/cylinder/hour" when using multi-grades. With at 28oz sump... Theoretically, you could use 13 oz of oil, assuming a 7 gallon fuel load and a 13 hour run time, ... about half of the oil fill. Oil consumption needs to watched closely.
Sorting through their recommendations I concluded, again......
Oil selection is based on the range of hottest and coldest temperatures expected during the next OCI. No surprise here. The oil with the broadest temperature range is synthetic 5W30. About -14 to 100+F, if I recall. Synthetic for easy starting and flow when its really cold. A 30W goes from about 40F to 104F.
Winters here, if you call it that, are somewhere in the 40s and my genny is stored indoors where is in 50s most of the time. (It will be a very cold day in [censored] when the temperatures drop to near zero and stay there in Texas Hill Country.) Hottest? Oh, 'bout 100 to 105. This is well within the operating range of a straight 30 weight.
Since a 'straight' 30W will protect in the temperatures I expect to see over the next year that's what I'm using. The B&S HD30 from Home Depot is an excellent choice.
NOTE: Previously, I lived in central Maryland where the winters could be in the teens and near zero on occasion and summers near 100. Per recommendation, I used synthetic 5W30 (Syntec). This oil probably had nearly 50 hours on it, having been used for 6 days during the '04 hurricane in Maryland and at various times since then. I didn't have an hour meter on it at the time but since installing one afterward, it clocked 14 hours in 5 years. The oil was black but still working when I changed it last week.
For you... the 5W30 syn would be the choice due to its low temperature applications. A 10W30 is good only to about mid 20's if I recall.
I hope this helps...
Here's a link with info and chart....
http://www.briggsandstratton.com/maint_repair/routine_maintenance/changing_oil/
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I read the recommendations and it seems they are referring to smaller motors. I have seen what 30 wt oil looks like in a riding mower with just a 8 hp motor. It comes out looking and flowing like water.And I don't see many push mowers with oil filters, except for maybe commercial grade ones. So Their recommendations don't seem to be in the consumers best interest.When saying using 1 oz per hour is normal, when you have less then a qt to use. When you consider how a b@s push mower is used vs a rider, the rider works aot harder. And the cooling is still done by the flywheel fan under a cover. That has to account for the high numbers of blown motors out there. I've switched to 15w40 diesel rated oil and have no consumption, and the motor sounds quieter, after a few hours or mowing. If you want to continue to use straight 30 wt oil, I would look for a better oil then the B@S stuff.,,
FWIW....
A week ago I helped my neighbor change the oil in his JD rider w/ 22hp Briggs air cooled V-twin. The last time it was changed it was 31 months ago and ~90 hours. While he's not good on changing oil... he is good at keeping records! It gets the same kind of use my JD 345 water baby Kawa 20hp twin does.
The oil last used was B&S 30W...straight from the Depot. The oil was black!!!! We changed the filter. The filter housing was shiny clean! Like new. We replaced the oil with B&S 30W and used a JD filter.
The statement that B&S oil is junk is just plain wrong.... Its a good oil and meets the SAE SL/SM standards.
A week ago I helped my neighbor change the oil in his JD rider w/ 22hp Briggs air cooled V-twin. The last time it was changed it was 31 months ago and ~90 hours. While he's not good on changing oil... he is good at keeping records! It gets the same kind of use my JD 345 water baby Kawa 20hp twin does.
The oil last used was B&S 30W...straight from the Depot. The oil was black!!!! We changed the filter. The filter housing was shiny clean! Like new. We replaced the oil with B&S 30W and used a JD filter.
The statement that B&S oil is junk is just plain wrong.... Its a good oil and meets the SAE SL/SM standards.
I have to believe B@S oil will do the job. But like any motor mfgr, the create a spec for the oil they will use then send it out for bid. And it's usually the low bidder that gets the contract.Now that doesn't mean the cost savings is passed along to the customer, usually the cost is higher then other premium oils. I'm sure you can purchase another brand of oil that will perform as well or better, for less $$$.And S I, there must be something wrong with your buddy's rider, according to B@S it should have used 1 oz or oil per hour of operation. After 90 hours, it should have ran out of oil along time ago.lol.,,,
Originally Posted By: Silber Igel
According to the B&S manuals... "air cooled engines will burn 1 oz of oil/cylinder/hour" when using multi-grades.
Emphasis added.
Briggs also loves synthetic oil, which the OP is considering, and specifically recommends it. This high burn off is in their opinion the pox of running cheapo dino multigrade, and was in my mower owner's manual from the late 1990s, so they've held this belief for a little while. Lucky for us they don't completely ban dino multigrade but rather appear to be trying to steer the operator gently away.
I cringe at the perceived wear on my genset just from spinning w/o load at the 3600 RPM needed for 60 hz power seconds after starting the thing.
According to the B&S manuals... "air cooled engines will burn 1 oz of oil/cylinder/hour" when using multi-grades.
Emphasis added.
Briggs also loves synthetic oil, which the OP is considering, and specifically recommends it. This high burn off is in their opinion the pox of running cheapo dino multigrade, and was in my mower owner's manual from the late 1990s, so they've held this belief for a little while. Lucky for us they don't completely ban dino multigrade but rather appear to be trying to steer the operator gently away.
I cringe at the perceived wear on my genset just from spinning w/o load at the 3600 RPM needed for 60 hz power seconds after starting the thing.
Nothing wrong with T6 in a Briggs - run it and don't worry.
B&S Engines will run for many years on anything and the engine will outlast the rest of the generator - especially with a good oil like T6.
If you're worried about it being a 5w40 (no reason to worry here) - then maybe T5 (10w30 Syn. Blend) would be another option for you to look at. If it was me, i'd just run the T6 and not look back.
B&S Engines will run for many years on anything and the engine will outlast the rest of the generator - especially with a good oil like T6.
If you're worried about it being a 5w40 (no reason to worry here) - then maybe T5 (10w30 Syn. Blend) would be another option for you to look at. If it was me, i'd just run the T6 and not look back.
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: Silber Igel
According to the B&S manuals... "air cooled engines will burn 1 oz of oil/cylinder/hour" when using multi-grades.
Emphasis added.
Eggs-act-ly! Maybe that's why they have low oil shut offs installed.....
Briggs also loves synthetic oil, which the OP is considering, and specifically recommends it. This high burn off is in their opinion the pox of running cheapo dino multigrade, and was in my mower owner's manual from the late 1990s, so they've held this belief for a little while. Lucky for us they don't completely ban dino multigrade but rather appear to be trying to steer the operator gently away.
The burn off appears to be lower with synthetics. Perfectly acceptable. You just have to check the oil when refueling. No biggie!
I cringe at the perceived wear on my genset just from spinning w/o load at the 3600 RPM needed for 60 hz power seconds after starting the thing.
I think this occurs but it's so minimal as not to be a concern if you are using the recommended grades for the expected ambient temperature ranges.
Originally Posted By: Silber Igel
According to the B&S manuals... "air cooled engines will burn 1 oz of oil/cylinder/hour" when using multi-grades.
Emphasis added.
Eggs-act-ly! Maybe that's why they have low oil shut offs installed.....
Briggs also loves synthetic oil, which the OP is considering, and specifically recommends it. This high burn off is in their opinion the pox of running cheapo dino multigrade, and was in my mower owner's manual from the late 1990s, so they've held this belief for a little while. Lucky for us they don't completely ban dino multigrade but rather appear to be trying to steer the operator gently away.
The burn off appears to be lower with synthetics. Perfectly acceptable. You just have to check the oil when refueling. No biggie!
I cringe at the perceived wear on my genset just from spinning w/o load at the 3600 RPM needed for 60 hz power seconds after starting the thing.
I think this occurs but it's so minimal as not to be a concern if you are using the recommended grades for the expected ambient temperature ranges.
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
I have to believe B@S oil will do the job. But like any motor mfgr, the create a spec for the oil they will use then send it out for bid. And it's usually the low bidder that gets the contract.Now that doesn't mean the cost savings is passed along to the customer, usually the cost is higher then other premium oils. I'm sure you can purchase another brand of oil that will perform as well or better, for less $$$.And S I, there must be something wrong with your buddy's rider, according to B@S it should have used 1 oz or oil per hour of operation. After 90 hours, it should have ran out of oil along time ago.lol.,,,
I don't subscribe to conspiracy theories. I think they design the engine around the much more available grades of oil. Much easier than specing a special oil and getting it refined to order. B&S appears to be about the same price as name brands. The problem is the don't sell it in quarts ... they are all small quantities or 48 oz size here.
I think the B&S is higher in moly than other brands oils. So, maybe it is custom made... or its an old spec they continue to use???
There was a small amount of burn off. But remember... it was a straight weight 30 not a mulit-grade. Burn off is less with a single grade.
I have to believe B@S oil will do the job. But like any motor mfgr, the create a spec for the oil they will use then send it out for bid. And it's usually the low bidder that gets the contract.Now that doesn't mean the cost savings is passed along to the customer, usually the cost is higher then other premium oils. I'm sure you can purchase another brand of oil that will perform as well or better, for less $$$.And S I, there must be something wrong with your buddy's rider, according to B@S it should have used 1 oz or oil per hour of operation. After 90 hours, it should have ran out of oil along time ago.lol.,,,
I don't subscribe to conspiracy theories. I think they design the engine around the much more available grades of oil. Much easier than specing a special oil and getting it refined to order. B&S appears to be about the same price as name brands. The problem is the don't sell it in quarts ... they are all small quantities or 48 oz size here.
I think the B&S is higher in moly than other brands oils. So, maybe it is custom made... or its an old spec they continue to use???
There was a small amount of burn off. But remember... it was a straight weight 30 not a mulit-grade. Burn off is less with a single grade.
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Silber Igel, we were having a similar discussion in this current thread … except that the subject is 15w40 instead of 5W-40:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/anyone-using-15w-40-hdeo-in-their-lawnmowers.134364/
But most of the principles are the same.
I would sum my argument for the use of 5/15W-40 HDEP motor oils simply as follows:
1) The weight is a good choice for OPE that typically run high oil temps. They are a 40 weight at operating temp (which is a bit higher than the 30 weight recommended by manufacturers - B&S, Kohler, etc …) but these engines are quicker to shear and/or dilute their oil and I would say that during an interval of 30-50+ hours, they will be closer to ideal viscosity than a straight 30 weight which will become diluted and a XW-30 which will be diluted and sheared down, perhaps dangerously so.
2) The oil blenders update their oil formulations about ever 6-12 months. But B&S recommendations are usually updated only every decade or so. When they first began recommending multi-viscosity oils, they treated synthetics and conventional as though they were worlds apart in terms of performance. That might have been true in the 90s but in this age of Group II+ ‘conventional’ and Group III ‘synthetics’ that are very shear-prone, even in mundane, liquid-cooled applications. Again, their recommendations are at least a decade behind the times.
3) The last B&S manual I read (a “Quantum” engine on Dad’s wood splitter, I believe) actually said the use of straight 30 weight oils (the same they recommended for decades) could damage the engine in sub-freezing temps. If so, why did they recommend it for so long? Why didn’t they figure this was a potential problem, say … in the late 80s? Again, they are way, way out of date with their recommendations.
4) The recommendation of a straight 30 or a multi-vis XW-30 seems to be driven heavily by availability. If you have to come up with a one-size-fits-all solution, this is probably an acceptable one … but that doesn’t make it ideal. If you are willing to put some thought into it and shop around, you can do better.
5) In a well-maintained, internal combustion engine, most wear occurs at start-up and a 5/15W-40 flows better at start-up and should contribute to lower wear at this critical run time.
You seem perfectly happy with a straight 30 weight because you live in a very warm area. In at least half of North America, straight weight oils are poor choices for year-round operation … even in spring or fall. If you start work in the morning, at or below the freezing point.
Other notes:
”The B&S HD30 from Home Depot is an excellent choice.”
I disagree strongly. OEM branded oils are usually of a decent, but not outstanding quality … but are highly priced … sometimes outrageously so. Convert the bottle price into a price-per-ounce then compare to some of the best oils (conventional and synthetic) that can be obtained on-line or in big-box retailers (Wal-Mart, Auto-Zone, Tractor & Supply, etc …). If one insists on a straight 30 weight, most HDEO blenders offer that weight as well. Any of those are likely to be superior to B&S 30 weight in terms of base oil quality as well as additive package.
Think of a B&S branded oil filter. Does anyone seriously believe these $10, tennis-ball sized filters are an excellent choice for the engines they fit? Or are you better off with a Wix, Purolator, Hastings, Baldwin, etc … which provide as-good-or-better quality for one-half the price or less.
Oil filters are not oil … but I believe the same principle is at work here.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/anyone-using-15w-40-hdeo-in-their-lawnmowers.134364/
But most of the principles are the same.
I would sum my argument for the use of 5/15W-40 HDEP motor oils simply as follows:
1) The weight is a good choice for OPE that typically run high oil temps. They are a 40 weight at operating temp (which is a bit higher than the 30 weight recommended by manufacturers - B&S, Kohler, etc …) but these engines are quicker to shear and/or dilute their oil and I would say that during an interval of 30-50+ hours, they will be closer to ideal viscosity than a straight 30 weight which will become diluted and a XW-30 which will be diluted and sheared down, perhaps dangerously so.
2) The oil blenders update their oil formulations about ever 6-12 months. But B&S recommendations are usually updated only every decade or so. When they first began recommending multi-viscosity oils, they treated synthetics and conventional as though they were worlds apart in terms of performance. That might have been true in the 90s but in this age of Group II+ ‘conventional’ and Group III ‘synthetics’ that are very shear-prone, even in mundane, liquid-cooled applications. Again, their recommendations are at least a decade behind the times.
3) The last B&S manual I read (a “Quantum” engine on Dad’s wood splitter, I believe) actually said the use of straight 30 weight oils (the same they recommended for decades) could damage the engine in sub-freezing temps. If so, why did they recommend it for so long? Why didn’t they figure this was a potential problem, say … in the late 80s? Again, they are way, way out of date with their recommendations.
4) The recommendation of a straight 30 or a multi-vis XW-30 seems to be driven heavily by availability. If you have to come up with a one-size-fits-all solution, this is probably an acceptable one … but that doesn’t make it ideal. If you are willing to put some thought into it and shop around, you can do better.
5) In a well-maintained, internal combustion engine, most wear occurs at start-up and a 5/15W-40 flows better at start-up and should contribute to lower wear at this critical run time.
You seem perfectly happy with a straight 30 weight because you live in a very warm area. In at least half of North America, straight weight oils are poor choices for year-round operation … even in spring or fall. If you start work in the morning, at or below the freezing point.
Other notes:
”The B&S HD30 from Home Depot is an excellent choice.”
I disagree strongly. OEM branded oils are usually of a decent, but not outstanding quality … but are highly priced … sometimes outrageously so. Convert the bottle price into a price-per-ounce then compare to some of the best oils (conventional and synthetic) that can be obtained on-line or in big-box retailers (Wal-Mart, Auto-Zone, Tractor & Supply, etc …). If one insists on a straight 30 weight, most HDEO blenders offer that weight as well. Any of those are likely to be superior to B&S 30 weight in terms of base oil quality as well as additive package.
Think of a B&S branded oil filter. Does anyone seriously believe these $10, tennis-ball sized filters are an excellent choice for the engines they fit? Or are you better off with a Wix, Purolator, Hastings, Baldwin, etc … which provide as-good-or-better quality for one-half the price or less.
Oil filters are not oil … but I believe the same principle is at work here.
I have three year old 11 h.p B&S Kool Bore engine on my snow thrower with less than 50 hours on it. It consumes 5W30 Mobile 1 synthetic oil at a rate of about half an oz. per hour. I plan on switching back to conventional oil this winter to see if consumption stops. Synthetic oil has not been idea for this engine.
boraticus, before dismissing all synthetics for this piece of OPE, try something else like Penzoil Platinum ... or a HDEO like one of the 5W-40 oils, Shell Rotella T5 10W-30 synthetic blend or maybe even Chevron Delo 0W-30 if you can find it near you.
Mobil 1 is on the thin side in most weights/grades ... and I'm usually not too impressed with the add pack (which has come and gone over the years). It may just be this particular oil that is not working out for you.
Is the machine stored in a heated area ... or started ice cold?
Mobil 1 is on the thin side in most weights/grades ... and I'm usually not too impressed with the add pack (which has come and gone over the years). It may just be this particular oil that is not working out for you.
Is the machine stored in a heated area ... or started ice cold?
Originally Posted By: Bror Jace
boraticus, before dismissing all synthetics for this piece of OPE, try something else like Penzoil Platinum ... or a HDEO like one of the 5W-40 oils, Shell Rotella T5 10W-30 synthetic blend or maybe even Chevron Delo 0W-30 if you can find it near you.
Mobil 1 is on the thin side in most weights/grades ... and I'm usually not too impressed with the add pack (which has come and gone over the years). It may just be this particular oil that is not working out for you.
Is the machine stored in a heated area ... or started ice cold?
Thanks for the input. I chose the synthetic initially for cold weather starting. Yes, the machine is stored in an unheated garage. It does start very easily with Mobile 1 though.
My previous two snow throwers had Tecumseh L head 10 h.p. engines and I ran nothing but dino 10W30 in them. They were a bit tougher to start but neither one consumed any oil in over twenty years of use between them.
I thought that the type of engine (Kool Bore) may have been a contributing factor but I read an informative post from someone here who stated that his experience with Mobile 1 Synthetic in an air cooled OPE engine was not very good. The valves actually started sticking due to carbon and oil residue build up. After reading that, I began to think that with the consumption my engine is experiencing, it could very well be doing the same thing.
I might try as you recommend to see if another brand of synthetic will reduce consumption. If it doesn't, I'll just go back to using conventional oil in the snow thrower. After all, I use nothing but conventional oil in everything else I own and have never had an oil related issue of any type using it.
boraticus, before dismissing all synthetics for this piece of OPE, try something else like Penzoil Platinum ... or a HDEO like one of the 5W-40 oils, Shell Rotella T5 10W-30 synthetic blend or maybe even Chevron Delo 0W-30 if you can find it near you.
Mobil 1 is on the thin side in most weights/grades ... and I'm usually not too impressed with the add pack (which has come and gone over the years). It may just be this particular oil that is not working out for you.
Is the machine stored in a heated area ... or started ice cold?
Thanks for the input. I chose the synthetic initially for cold weather starting. Yes, the machine is stored in an unheated garage. It does start very easily with Mobile 1 though.
My previous two snow throwers had Tecumseh L head 10 h.p. engines and I ran nothing but dino 10W30 in them. They were a bit tougher to start but neither one consumed any oil in over twenty years of use between them.
I thought that the type of engine (Kool Bore) may have been a contributing factor but I read an informative post from someone here who stated that his experience with Mobile 1 Synthetic in an air cooled OPE engine was not very good. The valves actually started sticking due to carbon and oil residue build up. After reading that, I began to think that with the consumption my engine is experiencing, it could very well be doing the same thing.
I might try as you recommend to see if another brand of synthetic will reduce consumption. If it doesn't, I'll just go back to using conventional oil in the snow thrower. After all, I use nothing but conventional oil in everything else I own and have never had an oil related issue of any type using it.
I switched from M1 10W30 to 0W40 in my B&S Industrial 6 HP. I probably have 6 hours on the oil and it has not burned any of it so far. It still look very clean but so did the 2 year old M1 10W30 I just dumped out of it.
I think the 5w-40 you are contemplating would be a great choice.
I think the 5w-40 you are contemplating would be a great choice.
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