Rotella T6 5w40 ~3000 miles 02' Subaru EJ205

[SpecificationR]

Hello, this is my first post here on BITOG, but I have thousands of other posts on numerous car forums. Greetings all!

The following analysis came from my 1999 Impreza RS that has a 2002 WRX EJ205 engine swap. I changed the oil to Rotella T6 Synthetic after lurking these forums after reading that Mobil 1 can wreak havoc in Subaru boxer layouts. The previous owner used Mobil 1 almost exclusively.

Most of my automotive background is with Honda/Mitsubishi/Nissan. This is my first Subaru.

Info on current setup:
Apex-i Air filter/intake (dry element - http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/filters_test/2/ )
Fram Xtended Guard Oil Filter ( http://www.fram.com/oil-filters/xtended-guard.php )
Shell Rotella T6 5w40

Oil was changed in early February, and has about 40 dyno runs when it got Dynotuned via opensource w a "Stage2" (in the Subaru world - intake, turbo back exhaust, no cats, downpipe/uppipe/full 3" exhaust) setup. Overall, the engine has aprox 75-80k miles on it.

Currently, the car is running on the stock wrx ECU map, stock wrx up-pipe (w/ cat), stock wrx downpipe (w/ cats), stock wrx b-pipe, Pro-drive axle back. The car went back to stock to pass the California BAR inspection (it passed). I haven't put the car back to stage 2 as of yet.

The engine has 145 psi compression across the board. However, it burns through oil at an alarming rate of 1qt/800 miles or worse. No visual leaks, and there is trace oil in the intercooler/turbo tracts. I currently dont have any air-oil separators or catch cans but plan to do so soon. In bone stock form, this engine dyno'd at 200whp/202wtq on Dynojet 248c. Stock motors on that dyno usually pull 180/180 or less.

The consumption is a mystery despite the healthy compression/dyno numbers.

Thanks in advance! Any input is greatly appreciated.

 

[Tone]

This is the "New" Rotella T6? Seem to have a good amount of Zinc for a CJ-4

 

[INDYMAC]

With the 4 qts of make-up oil in 2500 miles it looks like a VOA (virgin oil analysis).

 

[SpecificationR]

yes, its the "new" T6. I was worried about the catalytic converters.

yes, with such heavy consumption, i would think that i would never need to change my oil as I'm putting in new oil so often. however, the subaru dipstick is only about a 1/4 of a quart between the low and full dot. I fill it up every time it gets to the low dot.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
however, the subaru dipstick is only about a 1/4 of a quart between the low and full dot. I fill it up every time it gets to the low dot.


Try not doing this. It should not be this way. You may merely be over filling it enough to whip the oil you add into the windage stream and out the PCV. Just let it sit 1/4 quart low and see if it sits there.

 

[oggb]

If you're consuming oil you might want to check your PCV. If it isn't that (and you don't have a TON of oil in the intercooler) you probably oughta check your turbo when you go back to Stage 2.

The turbo might be puking oil out of the hot side when you're at high RPM and the oil pressure is up. The stock TD04 isn't an incredibly long-lived turbo.

I don't recall EJ205s being known for having ring issues, and considering your compression is so good I doubt it'd be rings in any case.

I had my intercooler off a few weeks ago and I had a small amount of oil in it. My money's on either a stuck PCV or a blown turbo seal. Good news about the turbo is that they're not too terribly expensive.

Other than that, this is why us subie guys (and specifically WRX guys) run Rotella. Looks great to me.

Maybe it's time for a VF-series turbo upgrade!

 

[addyguy]

That's a lot of oil consumption, but it may be the price of a modded and hard-run engine.....

I don't know if it's important, but you insoluables are pretty darn high for a 3k run - with the hard running, you may be cleaning out deposits in the ring-packs, and consumption may settle down. Just a thought.

 

[SpecificationR]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Quote:
however, the subaru dipstick is only about a 1/4 of a quart between the low and full dot. I fill it up every time it gets to the low dot.


Try not doing this. It should not be this way. You may merely be over filling it enough to whip the oil you add into the windage stream and out the PCV. Just let it sit 1/4 quart low and see if it sits there.


i'll try this, thanks for the suggestion.

as for the PCV, i just replaced it during the return-to-stock phase. the outgoing PCV looked and worked fine as well.

as for the turbo, the hotside is rather dry. the intake side...hmmm not so much.

im gonna dig up some pics.

 

[SpecificationR]

sorry not the greatest shot, but you can see the oil buildup on the turbo outlet, but the buildup doesnt make it as far as the throttle body. the intercooler doesnt look as bad either.

im still running the stock 2.5 RS transmission, so i'm not exactly hard on this engine setup. no track events/autocrosses. shoot, I havent even done a hard charge up the angeles crest or anything else nearby. and by no means am i street/freeway racer.

so no big turbo upgrades for me, but I may however get this turbo rebuilt.

 

[bluesubie]

4 qts. of make-up oil and this oil still became a 30 grade in under 3k miles?

I would think that if the turbo or seals were on the way out, you would see some smoke.

-Dennis
On OEM TD04 #3

 

[SpecificationR]

Originally Posted By: bluesubie
4 qts. of make-up oil and this oil still became a 30 grade in under 3k miles?

I would think that if the turbo or seals were on the way out, you would see some smoke.

-Dennis
On OEM TD04 #3


hmmm excuse my noobiness, how did u get the 30 grade number? links to the explanation please..

hmmm you would think you would see smoke in this vid, right?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkcz_I3Us9E

I have 25 plus dyno videos on my computer, none of which really show smoke.

again thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread

 

[Gene K]

40 starts at 12.50 cSt at 100C.

11.89 cSt is 30. So it is shearing the oil.

My buddies wife has 240,000 miles on the original turbo in a 2003 Forester XT 2.5 Turbo on 5W-30 M1. What is the exact issue on the 2.0 with M1? I would have suggested M1 TDT 5W-40 as a more shear stable alternative.

Their is really no reason to change that early with all the add oil and a stock PCM. As a matter of fact if the shearing stabilizes with a 800 mile per qt add rate you could just change the filter.

PS Thats an awful lot of Zinc if thats CJ-4. Makes me wonder about Blackstone once again.

 

[SpecificationR]

Originally Posted By: Gene K
40 starts at 12.50 cSt at 100C.

11.89 cSt is 30. So it is shearing the oil.

My buddies wife has 240,000 miles on the original turbo in a 2003 Forester XT 2.5 Turbo on 5W-30 M1. What is the exact issue on the 2.0 with M1? I would have suggested M1 TDT 5W-40 as a more shear stable alternative.

Their is really no reason to change that early with all the add oil and a stock PCM. As a matter of fact if the shearing stabilizes with a 800 mile per qt add rate you could just change the filter.

PS Thats an awful lot of Zinc if thats CJ-4. Makes me wonder about Blackstone once again.


oh, wow. thats something to think about. as for the M1 and the 2.0's, I just read on here that it's not recommended and there are better alternatives. I'm not going to regurgitate bad info, but something in the lines that its on the thinner side of its indicated weight, and doesnt have as many additives.

if it makes any difference, i bought the extractor pump from Blackstone and extract through the dipstick tube via a silicon tube. I clean that tube with brakeparts cleaner.

Also, this sample was taken right after a short start to move the car into the garage from its parking spot on the street. could that have skewed the results?

Again, thanks for all the replies

 

[ZZman]

That oil consumption is horrendous.

But wear does look good. Probably because of the huge tolerances......

Bad valve seals?

 

[ZZman]

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=152040&page=1

 

[chevrofreak]

Originally Posted By: Tone
This is the "New" Rotella T6? Seem to have a good amount of Zinc for a CJ-4


That's just Blackstone completely screwing up again.

 

[SpecificationR]

Originally Posted By: ZZman
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=152040&page=1


thanks for the link.

is it me or does that thread read like any other of the dozens of oil consumption threads i've come across on the internet?

1-someone has oil consumption and makes a thread looking for help
2-3982583279825 members chime in saying:
"my engine doesnt burn a drop"
"search"
"1qt per 1000 is too much"
"something is wrong with the way you drive"

3-the original poster still continues to consume oil with no further help.

i've come to terms with my oil consumption on this particular setup, but im more concerned with the 5w40 becoming a 30 weight.

thanks again

 

[Jim Allen]

SpecR: What little Subaru knowledge I acquired was outdated when they quit making the Brat, so I'll stick to generalities. It's not breaking news to say your oil consumption is far from normal.

Gary's suggestion on letting the oil run a little low is spot-on... that's worked for me on many an engine. You might even double check that the dipstick is the correct one for the engine (since it had a swap???). Back in my tech days, I once fought an oil consumption problem with a car whose dipstick had slipped and the engine was being overfilled. That experience helped me diagnose a farm tractor oil consumption problem just a few years ago.

One thing to remember is that cat equipped vehicles usually don't smoke until oil consumption gets really bad. Unfortunately, all that oil is slowly clogging the cats.... and that will eventually catch up with you at a smog test.

Something jumped out at me, however, regarding your sampling methodology. Did you sample a cold engine? That's a no-no... the engine should be good and hot. But here's another suggestion. If you can, take your sample with the engine running. Your insolubles seemed high for the short run. That could be from just happening to take your sample from an area with a higher concentration of gunk, or it could be a sign of worse things. By taking the sample with a running engine, the oil is mixed well and you will more likely see a more true picture of the buildup in the oil. "Worse things" could include a lot of blowby that's contaminating your oil rapidly with combustion byproducts, or oxidation byproducts. The running engine thing has worked in every engine I tried it on but to avoid problems, it would help to envision where the tube will go so as not to foul the crankshaft. I do tube insertions and withdrawals with the engine off, but take the sample with the engine running.

The high insolubles could also be the engine cleaning itself up and they might decrease over time, as might the oil consumption. I think you offered up your own best advice. Roll with it for a while, monitor closely, and try the free stuff first... such as the oil level.

If I had to do a BITOG Carnac style diagnosis on a mechanical spot to look at first (e.g. a WAG), I'd guess your oil consumption was coming from the turbo. Still, good compression isn't always a good indication of the rings, particularly the oil control rings, and if the engine has been modded and run hard previously... the piston and rings have taken the brunt. Plus, oil consumption usually results in carbon buildup in the combustion chamber, something that can skew compression readings upward. Keep us posted.

 

[SpecificationR]

Thank you very much Jim Allen. Your input is noted and greatly appreciated.

The youtube video i linked, and many that I have on my computer are when the exhaust had no cats. So no blue smoke there. As for the dipstick, that did cross my mind, I will have to verify with a 2002 WRX owner to verify.

I will definitely take the next sample on a running/warm engine.

 

[bluesubie]

I would speak to your tuner about the consumption. Even with a robust 40 grade, shearing isn't that unusual. It just seems odd that it sheared in such a short interval with so much make-up oil, IMO.

There's a modified STI on here somewhere that ran RTS to 8k with very good results.

-Dennis